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18:15:01 - Status Log Opening
Chip: Hello
Jenn V.: Good evening
Chip: Hi
Chip: How are things with you?
Jenn V.: My husband and I are on our way home from a funeral inCleveland. I'll be with you until my battery runs out or I get home. I hope home comes first. It's bad out here.
Chip: Yeah, some weather. Good luck with the battery
Chip: How are you connecting to the Internet?
Jenn V.: I should be ok. Right now I'm still getting a signal.We'll see...
Andy: @64,64 !It's Andy
Denise: Hello!
Chip: Hi
Chip: How are things?
Denise: How are you? You guys snowed in up there?
Denise: Things are going well. I worked a lot on my revisions today and feel really good about all the changes that I made to my Goal analysis and Objectives
Chip: Great. The weather has been pretty bad.
Andy: @64,64 !It's Andy
Denise: Hi Andy!
Andy: hi
Chip: Hi Andy
Karie: @64,64 !It's Karie
Andy: hi
Chip: Hi Karie
Karie: Hi everyone
Denise: The snow is just starting down here!
Denise: Hi Kari
Karie: there's a gentle snow falling but it's not amounting to anything
Chip: Just starting? Where are you?
Karie: Central Ohio--it's been raining, but started snowing this afternoon.
Denise: Same.. Columbus area!
Andy: @64,64 !It's Andy
Chip: Oh, mostly snow up here.
Karie: anybody know if the snow's supposed to accumulate in the Columbus area?
Denise: I think that we might get an inch or two
Andy: It' snowing a little down here in Cincy. I got a water main break day for tomorrow. WOW!
Karie: Hope nothing you own got ruined!
Andy: it broke somewhere near our school
Annette: @64,64 !It's Annette
Karie: well, that worked out for you! I'm envious.
Chip: That's an unusual excuse.
Chip: Hi Annette
Annette: Hi
Denise: Hello!
Annette: Is it snowing up north?
Chip: Still snowing here. Several inches in Kent, more near the lake.
Kris: @64,64 !It's Kris
Andy: got to go get the Joe. be back soon
Chip: hi Kris
Kris: hello
rsynk: hello
Annette: Chip, one quick question. Your feedback said I need a terminal goal. Explain?
Chip: Your overall goal should be turned into a complete objective. That is called the terminal objective.
Jennifer J.: @64,64 !It's Jennifer J.
Chip: Hi Jenn J
Chip: Hi rsynk
Jennifer J.: hello
Chip: Hi Lauren
Lauren Davidson: Hello!
Chip: Hi Matt
Matt Dockery: Hello
Tanja: @64,64 !It's Tanja
Chip: hi Kris R
Tanja: good evening
Chip: Hi Tanja
Kris Robenolt: hi
Keith: @64,64 !It's Keith
Chip: Hi Keith
Keith: Good evening.
Chip: We'll get started in a couple of minutes.
Nancy Vondrak: @64,64 !It's Nancy Vondrak
Andy: sounds good
Chip: Hi Nancy
Nancy Vondrak: hi, y'all!
Keith: hi
Chip: Anybody have snow days today?
Matt Dockery: Yes, I did.
rsynk: me :)
Nancy Vondrak: I did too
Keith: I was counting on one, but wouldn't ya know - only a 2 hour delay
Andy: Water main break day for tomorrow
Jamie: not here in Columbus :(
Keith: Tomorrow looks more promising for a snow day, I think
Karie: I'm not sure about the Columbus area...
Chip: Really? I've been assuming that we would be OK tomorrow here.
Adina: @64,64 !It's Adina
Andy: We are moving toward make up days now :(
Matt Dockery: Today was our 5th snow day of the year, hopefully no more because that will cut into my summer!
Jennifer J.: I had a snow day-but so did my kids
Chip: Hi Adina.
Karie: That's what I mean...we probably won't be getting a snow day
Adina: Hello!
Nancy Vondrak: we've had 3
Karie: We've had 2
Keith: We've had five so far
Keith: We'll see.
Chip: OK, questions about the course?
Andy: no
Keith: Not right now.
Nancy Vondrak: no
Matt Dockery: Will we be able to get feedback on the parts for the pre and post tests, like we did with the previous assignments?
Chip: Yes, Matt. I will give feedback on the assessments and the design.
Matt Dockery: ok, thanks
Chip: But not after that.... You will need the time to work on things.
Tanja: We are supposed to finish analysis phase bu 03-11 but also to finish pre and post testsby next week?
Chip: I will also give second feedback on 1 to 4 in the next week.
Karie: when will we be allowed to re-submit 1-4?
Chip: Yes, Tanja, there is some overlap, but it is do-able.
Nancy Vondrak: so we can submit 1 - 4 one more time for feedback before getting a grade on 3/11
Annette: Your giving feedback on 1-4?
Chip: You can replace your submisions for 1-4 anytime now. I'll look at them over the weekend. But let me know by email that you have done so, so I don't miss any.
Andy: sounds good chip
Tanja: How about combining them in one document?
Chip: Yes, one more time for feedback on 1-4, which is what you were asking for last week, right?
Jamie: We submit them on the moodle correct? for review then we can turn them in one more time with that feedback on 3/11
Chip: I may put a place to submit the single document in Moodle, but for right now assume that the drafts are submitted in the same place.
Jamie: You answered my question- sorry about that.
Annette: I can't resubmit one of them. Can you reset that so I can?
Jamie: So we just upload them like we did before at the same place for now each seperatly
Chip: That's OK, Jamie, you got it right.
Chip: What happens when you try, Annette?
Annette: It says Final Draft Submitted
Chip: Jamie, that's the plan. If it isn't working, let me know.
Chip: Which assignment, Annette?
Annette: Oh also for a grade
Jamie: Thank you!
Chip: I thought I reset those things, but I'll try again.
Annette: Thanks
Chip: But tell me which assignment that was, Annette.
Annette: I'll check it out right now. Be back
Chip: OK, thanks.
Chip: Questions about the content? Tonight we start the design process, beginning with assessment.
Shehu Umar: @64,64 !It's Shehu Umar
Shehu Umar: Hi every1
Chip: Hi
Andy: nice to see ya
Keith: hey
Shehu Umar: Thanks
Chip: OK, what are the key points about assessment here?
Karie: criterion or objective-referenced
Denise: 4 types
Annette: Chip, It is the Goal/Instructional Analysis.
Keith: They should corelate to everything we have done so far.
Chip: OK, Annetter, thanks.
Nancy Vondrak: info in your objectives will determine best format for assessments
Chip: What types, Denise?
Jamie: pre test, entry behaviors, practice test, posttest
Andy: jamie got it before i could
Denise: Jamie beat me to it!
Chip: Yep
Chip: OK, so first thing..... match them to the objectives, as Nancy said.
Karie: Every one of our objectives? I have like 40!
Karie: Actually more, now that I think of it
Chip: What is the difference between criterion referenced and norm referenced assessments?
Chip: We'll get to that, Karie, good question.
Karie: Norm ref compares results to those of other students
Chip: Right Karie
Keith: criterion compares results with the objectives
Chip: So, which kind does ID prefer?
Karie: criterion referenced
rsynk: criterion
Jamie: criterion
Nancy Vondrak: criterion-referenced
Keith: criterion
Chip: Yup
Chip: Why?
Nancy Vondrak: i knew that was coming
Kris Robenolt: it's objective
Chip: Not a surprise, huh?
Keith: Its kind of the whole point of what we are doing.
Jamie: it compares results to the objective
Tanja: Can't it be both criterion and norm?
Shehu Umar: to push learners to the same level
Chip: Good point Keith.
rsynk: you are measuring the student against the goal not other students
Chip: Not easily, Tanja.
Karie: You are checking to see if they've mastered the objectives
Chip: What are some exmaples of norm-referenced?
Andy: our ORAT
Shehu Umar: IQ?
Karie: IOWA tests
Kris Robenolt: grading on a curve?
Jenn V.: Achievement tests
Matt Dockery: achievement tests
Shehu Umar: GRE?
Andy: Any apptitude test
Chip: YES! All good examples. When your score is a comparison of you to a group.
Chip: In many ways, takng CR seriously is a real shift for education.
Jennifer J.: isn't a letter grade a comparison of your score to the perfect score?
Andy: i woudl say yes
Shehu Umar: but CR is not so easy to prepare either.
Keith: Yes, but a letter grade is a little different than a test.
Karie: but it doesn't show how you compare to others
Chip: Grades may be NR in many cases. CR are more likely to be pass-fail, bu there are a lot of exceptions.
Chip: If the course and grading system would allow everyone to get As OR everyone to fail, then it is more like a CR assessment.
Jennifer J.: i c.
Kris Robenolt: wouldn't grades correspond with how well they met the criteria
Andy: but there are many factors to take into account for the grade
Keith: Grades are as varied as teachers.
Chip: I would hope so, Kris R, but frequently if"too many" people get As or fail, then we might scale the scores diferently, reducing the effect of the criteria.
Kris Robenolt: I see
Andy: The test is a snapshot, where the grades take into account, knowledge, effort, etc
Chip: How we set the criteria is crucial. And this is where the difference btween the obj criteria and the test criteria come in.
Shehu Umar: Okay, part of the crucial design decision.
Chip: Take math. We might want them to be able to add fractions "correctly" but we might set the test criteria at 80% (say) for a pass.
Chip: Why?
Keith: 80% requires more than just guessing.
Karie: That's high enough that they can't accidentally get that much correct
Keith: 60% could be guessing.
Karie: Keith said it better!
Keith: not 80
Chip: OK, good you want to reduce the effects of chance correct answers.
Matt Dockery: It allows for some mistakes, but still understand the material
Kris Robenolt: how would differentiated instruction come into play? would you have different criteria for different learners?
Shehu Umar: correctly here means this much. something higher could ve been set, depending on the learners b/grd?
Chip: Why not higher than 80?
Jenn V.: Not every student can get 100%, but 80% demonstrates understanding
Chip: Ah, good questions, Kris R... let's get back to it soon.
Kris Robenolt: ok
Jenn V.: You would have to have deifferent criteria for differentiation
Chip: Why can't they get 100?
Karie: It takes into account test items that may have been unfair for one reason or another
Jenn V.: some may not have the ability.
Shehu Umar: their b/grds?
Jennifer J.: humanity
Chip: Good Karie,
Tanja: We can't realistically expect 100%.
Chip: Right, Tanja, but why?
Keith: It also depends on the necessecity
Keith: related to differentiation
Andy: not everyone will master the skill at the same speed
Nancy Vondrak: some students might have special needs
Keith: How long do we spend on a given topic.
Annette: Not all students learn or test the same.
Tanja: Bexause everyoine makes mistakes. Write numbers wrong...
Shehu Umar: In medics, eg, it might be 100%? Human life.
Keith: Yep
Annette: 80% would be a good modification for the special needs students
Andy: I remember much of my military testing required 100%
Chip: Even if all the students have mastered it, there are still the various random events that interfere.
Tanja: It also depends how complicated a test is.
Karie: 80% is fine for a math test, but not for the surgeon working on me!
Jenn V.: 80-75% is typical for spec needs
Chip: True, Tanja.
Keith: flying requires 100% - or skydiving
Shehu Umar: karie, you get me
Jamie: i agree Karie!
Nancy Vondrak: me too
Chip: Good point, Keith, there are some skills that you can't compromise on.
Andy: what do you call a doctor that grads last in the class?
Chip: Docter
Keith: Practicing
Andy: yup
Karie: One of my students wore a t-shirt today that read, "If at first you don't succeed...skydiving's not for you"
Shehu Umar: 1st time I heard it
Nancy Vondrak: cute, Karie
Keith: ha
Andy: we digress
Jenn V.: cute
Annette: My daughter is in med school. She will love it Andy.
Shehu Umar: the term fits the grade
Chip: OK, so anyway, once you have your objectives, you can put together your assessments.
Shehu Umar: esp the spelling
Karie: do you assess EVERY objective?
Andy: i would think so
Chip: As part of that, you have to decide what constitutes a passisg score... that depends on the topic, the students, the chances and consequences of random error, etc.
Keith: Some assessment items may cover multiple items depending on the design, correct?
Chip: Yes, but there are various ways to do that, Kris, we'll discuss it.
Chip: Possibly, Keith.
Andy: what about a score for software training.
Chip: Let's get another key concept first.... everyone remember what is meant by reliability and validity of the assessments?
Andy: yes
Jenn V.: yes
Shehu Umar: yes
Chip: Andy, checklists! We'll get to them.
Matt Dockery: yes
Karie: remind me..it's been 20 years
Nancy Vondrak: yes
Andy: thanks
Chip: OK, somebody tell us.
Karie: reliable--tests what it's supposed to? Valid means its' repeatable?
Karie: I think I have it backwards
Jenn V.: Validity-are you testing what you say you are testing
Shehu Umar: validity is appropriateness
Karie: Okay now I remember
Chip: Karie had the concepts but reversed them.
Shehu Umar: Reliability consistency?
Chip: What does validity mean for CR tests and ID?
Shehu Umar: measuring in line with the criterion?
Karie: it shows mastery of an objective?
Andy: if we are measuring computation then the test should have questions that require computation
Chip: Yes! If you can match them to the objs, that's all I ask.
Chip: Reliability is more of a statistical concept that we can't really do here, though.
Chip: OK, so given your various projects, what are some of the ways that we might assess students within them?
Keith: With creating an MP3 file - a rubric
Andy: From your suggestion I will need to use a checklist
Annette: Hands-on - Rubric
Chip: What kinds of criteria would be in the rubric, Keith?
Shehu Umar: proportionate sketching?
Jennifer J.: give them a book and have them write a citation for it
Andy: when each obj is meet it gets checked off
Karie: I can see a rubric for the final product of my lesson, but I'm having a hard time thinking of how to assess each objective
Keith: Well, I was just going to ask you if you thought a checklist might be better for mine.
Chip: OK, so with all of them, you want to have them perform the actual tasks.
Shehu Umar: yes
Jennifer J.: yes
Keith: The way I am designing it, either they will complete the task or they won't.
Keith: The checklist might be better for mine.
Andy: that is what i'
Nancy Vondrak: completing a hands-on activity and using a rubric to grade it?
Chip: Karie, that's an important distinction. You might want to asses the PRODUCT that comes from their work or the PROCESS they take to get there or BOTH.
Andy: m looking toward
Shehu Umar: all psychomotor shd be like that? success or failure?
Karie: Okay, I think I understand that, Chip...
Kris Robenolt: Keith, will any objectives be met without completing it?
Keith: Well.
Chip: Let's take Keith's for a moment.
Chip: as an example.
Chip: In his, the goal is that the learners will create an MP3 file.
Keith: They could come up with an MP3 file, just disorganized
Andy: so we can have a checklist and a rubric?
Keith: Mine is going to be fairly structured and straightforward, so they could for example, leave out the music.
Chip: You could assess the quality of that, according to a rubric-- length, sound quality, features (e.g. background music), etc.
Keith: yes
Chip: Or you could asses the process they used to get there.... did they perform all the steps correctly?
Karie: is a checklist enough for that? does a checklist take care of "correctly'?
Chip: The process is often easily assessed with a checklist of steps.
Tanja: How would you know that? By observation?
Kris Robenolt: could you have a checklist for each step
Andy: i guess it all depends on what level you want the learner to achieve
Chip: Yes, you would observe and check things off on the checklist.
Jenn V.: If you assess the procees, you are asessing each step?
Keith: Maybe with mine, a checklist for the process and a rubric for the finished product.
Chip: Yes, Jenn V.
Karie: that sounds like mine, too.
Karie: But observing and checking off 26 students' work will be a challenge.
Keith: If they do well on the checklist, the rubric will look good tool.
Keith: too
Andy: Keith, that is what I see for mine too
Chip: It is somewhat similar to "show your work" for math problems. There you could see whether they get the right answer, but you might also want to know about the steps they took.
Shehu Umar: Team work then?
Jenn V.: Does teh criteria for each objective have to br the same or can it be different?
Keith: So, could the checklist be a self assessment for the learners?
Keith: And the rubric more for me to use?
Andy: good point keith
Keith: With a class of, say 18?
Chip: Yes, that's true, Karie, but here we're going to tryout the instruction with 3 learners. After we know that the instruction works, we c
Chip: can remove the process assessment and just assess the product.
Keith: thanks Andy
Shehu Umar: 3 is a manageable size. I am glad
Karie: Oh--I guess I thought the 3 learners was the minimum! We HAVE to try first with 3 learners?
Keith: Sure we "can"
Keith: The more feedback for the learner, however, the easier the process is for them.
Keith: Like this class.
Jennifer J.: are we creating the assessment before we create teh teaching tool?
Chip: Yes, we want just a very few learners for the first tryouts.
Karie: that's what backwards design models propose, Jennifer J
Chip: That's true, Keith, but we could move to checklists that thestudents use themselves.
Jenn V.: What if your learners differ greatly from one another?
Keith: That is the part where the checklist also helps us - with the tryout.
Keith: It tells us where difficulty is in the process.
Chip: Jenn J... yes, we doing the assessments first.
Chip: Kind of like what is now called "backwards design."
Jenn V.: I would normally assess on an indiv, basis
Andy: so we can have the students first use the checklist and then we use the rubric?
Chip: OK, so we've talked about rubrics and checklists. What else can we do?
Tanja: We can to tests - that is what I'll need.
Keith: preassessmens & entry level tests
Chip: Jenn V. well, here we're going to keep the task constant and assess everyone on it.
rsynk: mc for verbal
Keith: How much are you looking for?
Annette: Grade for content knowledge
Chip: Yep, tests are sometimes appropriate.
Annette: Before and after
Chip: Annette: how?
Annette: Pre-Test to know how much they know to start
Annette: Post Test to see how much they have learned at the end
Andy: look for goal centered criteria
Tanja: I plan to use practice tests - questions spread during the instruction.
Kris Robenolt: should you use a checklist for preassessment?
Chip: OK, so you can use a variety of specific kinds of assessments.
Annette: I would not grade the Pre-Test
Chip: As you are pointing out, you need them (at least for the tryouts) at several points in the process.
Annette: or take a grade for the pre-test
Andy: What if they achieve the goal on the pretest?
Kris Robenolt: not grade it, but use the checklist to evaluate the needs
Chip: You want to make sure that they are ready for the instruction by assessing prerequisite info and skills.
Annette: They won't
Chip: You want to know what they know about the topic with a pre-test.
Chip: And you want to know whether they have learned it with a post-test.
Annette: Yes
Denise: If they achieve the goal on the pretest then they do not need instruction
Nancy Vondrak: makes sense
Chip: (We'll talk about practice starting next week.)
Shehu Umar: Not if NA took place.
Annette: That never happens
Keith: In our one hour time frame, are we do include a pre-test and possibly adjust?
Chip: Andy.... that's an issue. What does it tell you?
Karie: what if we've already done an attempt at Concept Mapping this year and they were pretty bad, leading me to develop this lesson. Is that enough of a pretest?
Chip: I don't count the assessment time as port of the one hour.
Andy: if the achieve the goal then the instruction isnot needed
Shehu Umar: If they achieve the goal on pretest, then no NA took place, I suppose?
Chip: Hmmm, Karie, let me think about that. email me.
Kris Robenolt: what if prerequisite skills are not there?
Denise: Or the NA was not successful
Chip: Right, Andy and Denise, etc.
Chip: You tell me, Kris R.
Denise: Then you need to include the pre reqs in the instruction..
Kris Robenolt: I would have to teach them
Karie: take time to teach the prerequisite skills first
Denise: Re write the objectives for the tenth time
Karie: Ha!
Jamie: yep!
Keith: My students are coming to me, specifically because they are saying they need the instruction.
Andy: I agree with Denise
Chip: Right, if the prereqs are not there, then there is a good chance that they won't be able to learn very well from the instruction.
Andy: I and encountering this with adding/sub fractions with my students.
Annette: I agree
Kris Robenolt: that seems to always be the problem with instruction
Andy: many are coming wiht out basic facts knowledge
Nancy Vondrak: Chip, would we then adjust our instruction?
Jamie: I agree Andy
Chip: We'll get to some practicalities of how to do the pre-testing, etc. when we talk about the tryouts. For now, we have to prepare to do it , at least.
Chip: Nancy, there are two issues about that: 1. how do we do the tryouts (we'll cover that later) and 2. where do we go in the process to fix it.
Andy: at this point can we anticipate that the the prerequistes are meet/
Chip: The second one would send us to the NA, the IA, the objs, etc.
Nancy Vondrak: so we'd go back to those parts and adjust the instruction?
Chip: Not really, Andy. I do want you to be able to assess them.
Chip: Right Nancy.
Andy: ok
Chip: OK, let's review what we want to do at this point in the process
Chip: We need assessments for the prereqs, to make sure that they are ready.
Chip: Then we need pre and post assessments, so that we can find out if they learned anything.
Chip: Note that the pre and post should be very similar or even identical.
Chip: We'll worry about practice later.
Annette: Can the pre and post test be the same?
Karie: So to do a pre-assessment for something like making a concept map, just have them try to make a concept map without any specific instruction first?
Chip: To make these assessments we need to match the objectives and use rubrics, tests, checklists, etc. as appropriate to the project.
Andy: if you did that then there may not be any need for insturction
Chip: Annette, in some cases yes. If you were teaching how to change a tire, they might be identical (within safety guidelines).
Chip: Right, Karie.
Keith: In swimming, your pre & post test may be identical.
Chip: Right, Andy, if they ace the pretest, then why teach?
Andy: just jump in!?
Annette: You can measure how much they have learned by making the post identical to the pre.
Keith: Yes. Move on to advanced beginners!
Andy: Annette you got it
Chip: Ideally, they would get 100 % on the prereqs, 0% on the pre, and 100% on the post. Needless to say, it doesn't actually happen.
Tanja: But pre-tests of that type would be eventually dropped?
Chip: Why dropped, Tanja?
Tanja: Because there is no point in testing someone if they can do something that they have no clue how to do.
Andy: if the students didn't all pass the pretest, but yet masters some of the skills then we can cut out or add to the insturction
Keith: yep
Tanja: I think that something along those lines was mentioned in a book too.
Karie: if the pre-test is just going to be a bunch of guessing, what's the point?
Chip: Yes, I would be more likely to see what we could change to make the instruction more efficient.
Andy: But Karie do we know that before the pretest?
Chip: When you move beyond tryouts, however, you might drop the pre-test simply because you can predict better how the audience will do.
Karie: If you're introducing something you know they have never encountered before
Annette: Pre test allows you to know students content level
Keith: The book pointed out that a pretest is not just to see how much the students have gained, but to guide your instruction.
Kris Robenolt: I performed a pretest for the NA phase
Keith: gained from pre to post, that is.
Chip: Yes, that can happen, Karie. We use the tryouts to confirm it. And then we might drop the pretest in practice.
Chip: Good, Kris R.
Kris Robenolt: could I just use that
Tanja: That is what I meant - possibly drop the pre-tests in practice.
Chip: Depends on whether it still matches your objs.
Kris Robenolt: ok
Chip: Ah, then yes, Tanja.
Chip: So the assignment is to make the assessments.
Karie: Yikes!
Nancy Vondrak: just pre and post?
Jennifer J.: we can't do post, can we?
Chip: That will include instructions to the learners, instructions to the people administering it (e.g. the observers), scoring instructions and criteria, etc.
Chip: Why not, Jenn J?
Kris Robenolt: prereq too?
Chip: Yes, all three.
Jennifer J.: we can't do post if we haven't taught it yet
Chip: You can make the assessments now. We won't use them with students until April.
Jennifer J.: oh, ok.
Chip: Questions? Comments?
Andy: sound straight forward
Jamie: not yet
Chip: At this point, it should be, yes.
Shehu Umar: yes
Karie: So in some of the examples we discussed earlier, would the rubric and the checklists be the "post"?
Andy: it would also be the pre
Denise: I am thinking check list for pre reqs
Keith: Could a preassessment for me be to ask the learners to make an MP3 file and have a "Nope" fairly quickly?
Andy: that sound about right keith
Keith: In other words - identical to the post test, but without the instruction, the learner will come close to that 0%?
Chip: There would be a task to be given to the students with instructions, and the scoring would include the rubtic and a checklist to be used while observing.
Chip: The checklist would have instructions on how to use it and what to observe.
Karie: Chip, is that for the pre-assessment?
Andy: Keith my Windows Movie Maker project will be like yours
Chip: Yes. Again, when we come to the truouts, we might find that we can sshorten things. But in your case, Keith, it might be useful
Keith: Okay
Chip: to be able to tell which parts of the process they could and couldn't do.
Karie: I'm confused. If I give the students instructions, a checklist, and a rubric, I'm pretty much delivering most of the instruction they'll be getting in the "lesson"!
Chip: Karie, it would probably be for both pre and post.
Lauren Davidson: Karie, I was thinking the same thing!
Jenn V.: me too
Keith: The instruction would not be included in the pretest.
Karie: It almost seems like too much information for the preassessment
Keith: Karie, just the assessment items, right Chip?
Chip: No, the instructions are for the assesssment. Such as "Please do the following ten arithmetic problems. You have 5 minutes."
Lauren Davidson: Oh, ok! Much clearer now!!
Chip: I'm not talking about instructions for how to do the task here.
Karie: Oh! I get it! Not instructions for making the product.
Chip: Sorry, I'll try to be clearer in the future.
Keith: "Please make an MP3 file, here is your checklist & rubric. Go at it."
Nancy Vondrak: just instructions on taking the test, right?
Karie: Is Keith's approach OK?
Jennifer J.: we are to do this for all three tests?
Chip: "Use this script to record and edit an MP3 file."
Karie: so, "Use this checklist and the rubric to make a concept map."
Chip: Keith... I would leave the rubric and checklist to the observer.
Keith: Okay.
Andy: tell them waht they are to make and go for it
Chip: Jenn J. yes
Jenn V.: in my case, my students nee4d prompting the whole way through. How should I do my pre-assessment
Chip: Karie or simpler: here are 10 concepts. Make a map that connects them.
Karie: I'm confused again... who is "the observer"?
Keith: So my preassessment would be fairly short.
Jennifer J.: can we be our own observer or do we need another person?
Chip: Hmmm, Jenn V. good question. Let's consider that by email, etc.
Nancy Vondrak: observer give the test, right?
Karie: Okay, Chip, so they don't really even need the checklist and rubric yet for the preassessment?
Jenn V.: ok
Chip: Probably Keith.
Chip: Pretend that you are NOT the one who is going to assess the students. What instructions does the assessor/observer need to do it right?
Andy: Keith some may be able to complete the task just by looking at the check list, so we may have to put a time limit on it
Keith: We aren't giving them the checklist for the preassessment.
Andy: Chip, kind of what we do during the OAT?
Chip: Of course, if people can do it from a checklist, we could skip the instructional unit and just give the job aid.
Keith: Just the directions.
Shehu Umar: Which is more preferable?
Andy: got it
Chip: I don't know, Andy, tell me more.
Karie: For the OAT's the directions are scripted for the person administering the test
Andy: When we give the OAT, we have specific instruction for the students.
Chip: Shehu, in general, the most efficient approach is usually best.
Andy: We didn't make the test we are just administering it
Chip: Right, Karie/
Keith: I think you'e right Andy.
Chip: and Andy
Keith: Our script for the OAT is very short compared to the actual test.
Chip: And it will be short here, too.
Chip: OK, I will be out of town next week, weather permitting, but there will be a substitute.
Chip: I'll put more info in Moodle.
Karie: When are the three assessments due?
Andy: Does that mean we have to behave?
Keith: Well, maybe we will have Bugs Bunny.
Chip: Oh man.... substitute teachers. Scary.
Nancy Vondrak: be kind to subs--I once was one!
Denise: Especially when you are the sub!
Andy: Me too!
Denise: Me too Nancy!
Jennifer J.: me also
Chip: That's it for me. Anything else from you?
Keith: Nope
Nancy Vondrak: it's like walking around with a sign on your back that say's "Kick me"
Andy: I'm good
Karie: So what you're saying Chip, is that wherever you're going, you'll be away from any kind of laptop or computer! Nice! Enjoy!
Jennifer J.: this assignment is due next week
Jenn V.: I'll e-mail.
Denise: Not until I start writing
Karie: Ha!
Chip: I'll be in a meeting that evening. I could be online later, like 10.
Karie: No, that's okay...
Chip: OK, Jenn V.
Keith: Roman soldiers retire at ten.
Karie: so do tired overworked mothers
Chip: Good for them, Keith.
Nancy Vondrak: nice get up Keith
Andy: good night all
Chip: and Karie
Keith: thanks
Chip: See you online!
Jenn V.: good night
Nancy Vondrak: hope for a snow day 2morrow
Matt Dockery: ok, goodnight
Karie: bye
Denise: Good night!
Annette: Have a nice week.
Tanja: Good night
Jamie: good night!
Jennifer J.: yes snow day!! good night
Adina: bye
Chip: Bye
Keith: nite!
Shehu Umar: I am neither Roman nor soldier, but I retire at 10 too. Bye every1
Lauren Davidson: night!
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