18:23:36 - Status Log Opening
Jennifer J.: @64,64 !It's Jennifer J.
Chip: Hi JeeJ
Jennifer J.: Hello. Just here early so I can make sure I am logged in
ontime!
Chip: OK
Joe Walder: @64,64 !It's Joe Walder
Chip: Hi Joe
Joe Walder: hi
Chip: What's up?
Joe Walder: not a whole lot
Chip: Did you have school/work today?
Joe Walder: had to work a little bit at Moulton
Chip: Ah.
Joe Walder: i didnt know classes got cancelled until after i was there
Chip: Not much different for me. I was there all day anyway.
Annette: @64,64 !It's Annette
Chip: hi Annette
Annette: Hello everyone
Chip: How are things with you?
Annette: Things are cold in Cincinnati
Annette: I bet it is cold up north
Chip: Hi Jenn V
Jenn V.: Hi, everyone!
Chip: Yes, Annette, it's been cold and snowy. Although it did get warm
enough to have freezing rain for a while.
Annette: We are suppose to have freezing rain tonight.
Jenn V.: Chip, I have a question. On the performance objective, if I
have a subordinate objective that is "knows the difference between left
and write", how would I go about writing a goal, etc...
Jenn V.: I meant left and right ( sorry)
Jenn V.: It seems silly to say the student will identify left from
right, but is it necessary?
Chip: Given objects in different directions from the person, the learner
will discriminate those on the left from those on the right.
Chip: That would be one possibility.... with wording changes.
Chip: The question is whether your audinence can be counted on to know
this one.
Chip: If yes, then it is s pre-req. If not, then it is a subobjective.
Jenn V.: Actually, the student is discerning the left hand from the
right. I would say it is a skill they have.
Chip: Then it might not end up in your objectives at all.
Jenn V.: I'm a little confused about that point. If it something that
the students already have, it isn't necessary to list?
Chip: It depends on two things: how critical is it? and how sure are you
that they can do it?
Chip: In many o fthe projects it is critical that people be able to
read, but given the audience you woouldn't include that in either the
prereqs or subobjs.
Chip: It is basic enough to take for granted.
Jenn V.: It is critical to completing the task (opening a bag) and I
would say my students are able to indicate left from right 80% of the
time, 100% with verbal prompting
Chip: Then it needs to be there.
Jenn V.: Ok, with the verbal prompting element?
Chip: Will verbal prompting be part of, say, the test?
Jenn V.: Not for every student
Chip: Or will they need to be able to learn it well enough to do without
the verbal prompting
Jenn V.: IEP goals and ability dictate prompting is needed
Chip: With that variable an audience, then include it.
Jenn V.: Thanks. Sometimes I feel as though I am overdoing it, but with
my students even the smallest task needs explaining and support
Chip: Yes, with your audience, I doubt that you will be overdoing it.
Heidi: @64,64 !It's Heidi
Chip: Hi Heidi
Heidi: Hello
Chip: Hi Lauren
Lauren Davidson: Hello! Love the new avatar!
Chip: Heidi, drop me an email. I think I know someone who would know
about video courses for your students. But I need to remember to call
him during the day.
Heidi: Okay, thanks!
Chip: Lauren, this is one of my favorite avatars.
Denise: Hello!
Chip: Hi Denise
Chip: Hi Kris R
rsynk: hello
Chip: Hi rsynk
Kris Robenolt: hi everyone
Kris Robenolt: chip, I like the new look
Chip: Thanks. It's the real me.
Karie: @64,64 !It's Karie
Chip: Hi Karie
Kimberly C.: @64,64 !It's Kimberly C.
Chip: Hi Kimberly
Kimberly C.: hello
* Kimberly C. * I'm still a bit behind but plan on submitting the last
two assignments tomorrow to be all caught up.. I've been out sick this
past week, and with 18 days until my due date its been rough.
Karie: Hi everyone. Did anyone else get a day off of school?
Andy Short: @64,64 !It's Andy Short
* Kimberly C. * nope
Lauren Davidson: I had to go to work, but I got to leave early!
* Chip * OK, thanks for the update.
Andy Short: I got the day off, now to see what happens tomorrow
Chip: Hi Andy
Kris Robenolt: I was off too
Heidi: Karie, only yesterday
Andy Short: hi chip
Annette: I got a day off school but had to take a personal day or go in.
Kimberly C.: i wish i was, driving home was awful
Heidi: Andy, you did an awsome job at etech
Chip: Hi Jamie
Andy Short: did you see my presentation?
Jamie: Hello!
Keith: @64,64 !It's Keith
Heidi: yea..
Chip: Hi Keith
Keith: Hi
Andy Short: Thank for the props Heidi
Shehu Umar: @64,64 !It's Shehu Umar
Chip: Hi Shehu
Shehu Umar: Hello everyone
Shehu Umar: Hi Chip
Shehu Umar: I am getting used to reaching Palace now. I am glad.
Chip: Yes, it gets to be routine.
Chip: Hi Matt
Matt Dockery: Hello
Kris: @64,64 !It's Kris
Chip: HI Kris
Kris: Hello
Chip: We'll get started in a few minutes
Nancy Vondrak: @64,64 !It's Nancy Vondrak
Chip: Hi Nancy
Nancy Vondrak: Hi Chip and everyone else!
Andy Short: everyboddy go to the bathroom now because we are going to
stop until we get there.....I am sounding like my dad
Keith: Hi Nancy
Nancy Vondrak: Hi Keith
Tanja: @64,64 !It's Tanja
Andy Short: not going to stop....oopps
Chip: Hi Tanja
Tanja: Hello
Chip: I think that my contract allows bathroom breaks, Andy.
Nancy Vondrak: Did you read the fine print? lol
Jenn L: @64,64 !It's Jenn L
Chip: Uh oh, I may be wrong.
Chip: Hi Jenn L
Jenn L: hello
Keith: Hey Jenn!
Andy Short: don't you know that all teachers have the ability to hold it
for ever?
Jenn L: hi keith
Keith: I don't know about that?
Karie: Isn't that the truth, Andy
Chip: I'd prefer not to test that theory.
Matt Dockery: Ha! Faculty bathroom, right next to my classroom!
Nancy Vondrak: Lucky you, Matt
Keith: I have to walk down the hall in the middle of the morning between
class - real quick!
Karie: sometimes I tell the kids to take a restroom break so I can go
"check on something in the office"
Keith: Good strategy. I'll have to try it. :)
Chip: Does that fool anyone, Karie?
Chip: OK, let's go
Keith: ok
Shehu Umar: Ok
Adina: @64,64 !It's Adina
Chip: Any questions about course administration stuff?
Chip: Hi Adina.
Andy Short: nope
Karie: Well, I use a voice projection system (a microphone on a headset)
and one time I forgot to turn it off. They heard me peeing and the
toilet flushing! That was pretty funny.
Andy Short: been there Karie
Heidi: i dont think so
Keith: No administration questions at the present.
Jenn L: no snow day for us...gotta love technology
Jamie: no questions
Nancy Vondrak: nada
Andy Short: my wife said the same thing when they closed her office
today
Andy Short: they were told to work from home
Chip: OK, how about questions about course content (we'll look at
objectives this evening).
Kris Robenolt: none yet
Andy Short: same here
Karie: I never knew "objectives" could be so confusing or complicated
Keith: Administration question - If an old forum has not yet been
closed, does that mean that we could still go back and add comments for
points?
Tanja: I wish there were not so many synonims. Ex. behavioral objective
and performance objective and instructional objective.
Keith: Like a forum from a week or two ago.
Keith: Just wondering
Nancy Vondrak: good ques, Keith
Karie: I think so, Keith
Chip: Keith... in older versions of Moodle, I could set the forums to be
read only. I can't do that now. If you see it, you can post there.
Jenn V.: In spec ed we use those terms alot. I never really examined
them like I have for this assignment.
Keith: okay
Chip: So the forums will remain open to read, but unless you have
something really interesting to add to an old one, let's try to keep
moving forward.
Andy Short: I remember some of this from college, but that was 20 years
ago
Keith: okay
Chip: A week or two ago isn't a problem, though.
Nancy Vondrak: Could we add some review comments since we'll still tweak
our rough drafts?
Annette: I thought we only used the forum to ask questions if we had a
problem with an assignment.
Matt Dockery: I am so used to years of refering to objectives as
psychomotor, cognitive and affective that trying to keep the other names
straight gets confusing. Anyone else?
Chip: Yes, Spec Ed uses a lot of these concepts.
Jenn V.: Lots of terms, lots of confusion......
Keith: There are a lot of names. I refer back to the book when in doubt.
Andy Short: in my undergrad we refered to them as behavioral objectives
Chip: That's one use, Annette, but I also hope for some conceptual
discussions.
Chip: Nancy, I'm not sure what you mean with your question.
Matt Dockery: Yeah, my first IA was a mess, I had to read and reread
everything to clarify things.
Chip: OK, as you are saying there are lots of terms for performance
objectives.
Annette: Yes
Nancy Vondrak: It's just that after doing an assignment I feel more
qualified to discuss it, especially now that I will make some changes to
it after I got your comments, Chip
Jamie: yes I find myself going back and looking at old postings to help
me redo stuff
Chip: The idea came out of behaviorism, by Robert Mager
Karie: I feel the same way, Nancy
Chip: Oh sure Nancy.... a week or two after the assignment is fine. I
would object to your going back to the Needs in April, though.
Jenn V.: Looking at everyone's projects on the WIKI helps too
Nancy Vondrak: the wiki is helpful
Keith: Matt, my first IA was a kind of mess too. I am almost done with
my 2nd draft.
Jenn V.: Thanks agin, Andy
Chip: How many people are using the Wiki?
Keith: Me
Jamie: I use it
Nancy Vondrak: me somewhat
Shehu Umar: Me
Tanja: I plan to use it.
Andy Short: you're welcom Jenn
Jenn L: Yes I agree with that Jenn V. Keithyour context analysis helped
me a lot.
Annette: I am not but sounds like I should
Karie: I am
Heidi: I just signed up for it
Kris: i'm not, need to be though
Jenn V.: I haven't posted, but I have looked to see how others were
doing.
Matt Dockery: I just posted my stuff there
Denise: I have read some of the postings.. I have not posted anything
yet.
Chip: The idea there is that you can put up drafts and get others to
look a tthem.
Nancy Vondrak: same here, Denise
Keith: Thanks Jenn L
Andy Short: I haven't checked the log. I can do that in a little while
Annette: I need to get connected
Matt Dockery: Andy, can you see if my 3 things posted that everyone can
see.?
Shehu Umar: I only have visited it once though. Am I right to say yes
Andy Short: give me a minute
Chip: Time to put your assignment drafts there, Shehu.
Denise: You want us to put our drafts there?
Shehu Umar: Yes. On the verge of so doing.
Chip: OK, everyone who gets an education degree deals with objectives.
What, if anything is different about how we are doing them?
Jenn V.: Chip- How do you sort through all the differnt terminology. i
know in my field we don't ususally refer to the terms in the book when
discussing goals and objectives
Jim Raber: @64,64 !It's Jim Raber
Chip: Denise, it's up to you, but it might help to look at one another's
Chip: Hi Jim
Jim Raber: Hi
Shehu Umar: We ll love that. New things.
Karie: I think the longer we teach, the more we "short-cut" how we write
objectives
Chip: Well, Jenn V.. which terms are you concerned about?
Chip: How does that work, Karie?
Jenn L: Iagree karie
Matt Dockery: Yes, some objectives we just imply in lessons.
Kimberly C.: the objectives we are constructing are extreamly specific
Jenn L: my text book supplies the objectives
Matt Dockery: I agree with Karie
Karie: Well, I don't always write out all the conditions, the criteria,
etc--I just go straight for what I want to see the kids be able to do
Shehu Umar: If I can get my obj detailed I ll be happier
Andy Short: Matt did you post files or just comments?
Nancy Vondrak: i can relate to that, Karie
Matt Dockery: files
Annette: I am used to writing two objectives. One for the unit that will
be taught and the other for the lessons.
Andy Short: what is the name of the file
Jenn V.: We very rarely identify the subordiante objectives in the
detail discussed in the book. In fact we usually don't have the
opportunity to address them much beyond observable behaviors,
conditions, crit
Chip: What do you mean, Annette?
Jenn V.: nothing this detailed.
Chip: That's true, Jenn V, these are very detailed.
Karie: I'm used to writing "Big Ideas, " "Enduring understandings," and
"Essential questions" for unit plans based on the standards in my course
of study.
Jenn L: It definitely is a time issue
Chip: I have seen the objectives (part of them anyway) for learning to
land a fighter plane on an aircraft carrier.... talk about detailed.
Jenn V.: When we write these subordiante objectives, it is necessary to
write the percentage of accuracy, etc that we do with IEP goals?
Keith: I bet
Chip: I see, Karie
Matt Dockery: Instructional Analysis #2 Learner Analysis Needs Assesment
- revised
Andy Short: Matt, you may not have inserted the files. I can check the
file log after class
Matt Dockery: Ok, thanks Andy...we can take care of the later.
Chip: Jenn V not necessarily. We'll get to that.
Chip: It seems to me that there are several important differences. One
is the detail.
Shehu Umar: Yes
Shehu Umar: How detailed are we suppose to be?
Chip: Another is that you should know why each objective is there
because it contributes to meeting a need.
Chip: Another is how we will use them in upcoming steps.
Chip: Shehu... hold that question for a little while.
Shehu Umar: okay
Andy Short: each ojective builds on the next?
Chip: They should, Andy.
Chip: Who are the objectives written for?
Shehu Umar: The learners?
Keith: For us primarily
Karie: The instructor?
Keith: But they are useful for the student too
Kimberly C.: the teachers and learners
Andy Short: the learner, instructor
Jamie: the learner?
Chip: Anyone else?
Annette: The students
Keith: I like the Big Idea concept for students
Shehu Umar: The employers?
Keith: The simpler the better.
Chip: Yes, the designers to make sure that the instruction meets them.
Nancy Vondrak: Anyone who wants to know what the emphasize of our
lessons will be?
Jenn V.: The learner primarily, but we use them to gauge student
progress. So for both
Karie: I do objectives to guide me. I do "enduring understandings' to
guide them.
Tanja: Aren't the objectives actually IA steps?
Chip: The students, too, since giving them the objectives (usually
simplified) may help learning.
Annette: Aren't we stating what the learner will be doing?
Chip: The instructors to help keep them focused.
Keith: Helps us prepare assessments too.
Jenn L: I was surprised that the objectives come after the IA. It seems
a little out of order to me.
Chip: The asessment people to help write the assessments.
Andy Short: we are stating what the learn is to do and what we will do
to accomplish the task?
Chip: Employers, administrators, parents, may also have stakes here.
Jenn V.: I think it is a bit harder to do it that way. We typically do
it the other way.
Nancy Vondrak: what about administrators?
Keith: Some schools want the objectives posted on walls
Keith: for all to see
Chip: Well, Jenn L, you need to base the objectives on the IA.
Shehu Umar: Its a linked sys
Chip: The IA lays out how one accomplishes a task. The objectives
formalize that.
Jenn L: i understand...just use to doing it in reverse
Andy Short: we are one of those keith
Keith: The IA may at times dictate something other than the academic
content standards even - possibly
Keith: If we have a reason for what we are doing it helps
Chip: OK, clearly you don't post lots of specific ojectives on the
walls, just the big goals, right?
Andy Short: i think we get goals and objectives mixed up
Kimberly C.: right
Jenn V.: too many objectives along the way to post
Tanja: Can we get and example of formalized IA step?
Chip: What goes into a single good objective?
Jenn L: We are expected to state the objectives for the day to the
students at the beginning of each lesson
Chip: Yes, Tanja, we will.
Jenn V.: observable behavior, under what conditions, and to what
percentage of accuracy?
Nancy Vondrak: an action verb telling that we will do something?
Karie: The conditions...the skill...the criteria
Annette: a verb
Kimberly C.: a desired outcome
Chip: Yes, the big three are the conditions, the action verb, and the
criteria.
Chip: What kinds of verbs are acceptable?
Shehu Umar: overt verbs?
rsynk: observable ones
Keith: verbs that can be observed
Jenn L: verbs that are measureable
Karie: something more specific than "know" or "understand"
Keith: know can't be seen
Heidi: Bloom's Define, describe..
Annette: A verb that will specifies behavior or performance
Andy Short: we are required to use blooms
Chip: Yes, actions that you can obseve, which is the problem with verbs
such as understand, know, appreciate, etc.
Jim Raber: specific verbs...
Jim Raber: notabstract
Chip: What about conditions? What goes into them?
Jenn V.: with what supports, equipments, etccc
Jennifer J.: circumstances
rsynk: setting and tools
Shehu Umar: the learners needs in terms of training?
Annette: the action
Kris: the setting
Karie: a specific stimulus
Andy Short: what will be used to accompish the objective
Nancy Vondrak: the equipment and facilities
Shehu Umar: Materials, env, etc?
Denise: What they are doing to accomplish the task
Jim Raber: environment...like time frame
Keith: appropriate level of complexity
Chip: I usually talk about what the learners need in the way of
information, materials, equipment, etc. to perform the task in the
objective.
Jim Raber: or other similar criteria
Chip: Note that the conditions do not include what they need to learn it
but to do it.
Andy Short: given this... the students will....
Keith: "given ... the student will"
Chip: The worst offender would be something like "Given a workshop on
xyz, the learner will...."
Jim Raber: "using a..."
Shehu Umar: condition too wide?
Andy Short: the condition must be specific
Chip: Focuses on how they will learn it, not what they need to do it.
Shehu Umar: I see.
Annette: Is it what they need to do it or how they need to do it?
Tanja: Aren't these conditions performance conditions?
Nancy Vondrak: can you give an example please?
Chip: WHAT in terms of information, materials, equipment, and so on.
Karie: So, the circumstances under which the observed behavior will
occur?
Chip: Right Karie.
Jenn L: what if no equip...tools are needed?
Tanja: Then it is not tied to learning?
Shehu Umar: Pls illustrate.
Kimberly C.: would things like computers be considered a constraint as
well?
Tanja: It is actually related to performance?
Chip: Example: Given a computer running a Web browser and displaying the
Google search site, the learner will type ...
Chip: I like the term "performance objectives" because they specify the
performance we are looking for at the end.
Shehu Umar: the comp here is an equip, no?
Chip: Yes, Shehu
Shehu Umar: How can we teach without the need for anything?
Chip: Given an addition problem with two digit addends that will not
require carrrying, the learner will solve....
Karie: But it wouldn't be like, "Given paper and pencil, the students
will create a concept map" because that doesn't imply what conditions
are necessary for students to perform
Andy Short: @64,64 !It's Andy Short
Chip: We look at how to teach these later, when we can add various
strategies and teaching materials.
Shehu Umar: Ok
Andy Short: My wireless just dropped me and had to go reset it
Chip: Karie, that's OK as far as it goes, but there is still some
information needed, such as the terms that go onto the map.
Chip: Understood, Andy.
Karie: That's what I was saying...I wouldn't leave it at that...it would
need more info
Shehu Umar: Can we teach poetry without any equip?
Chip: Right, Karie, and if that is the case, then your conditions are
incomplete.
Chip: Sure, Shehu, but you may need other things (a rhyming dictionary?)
Jenn L: so given a choice in study strategies students will...
Jenn V.: not necessarily equipment, Shehu. Maybe dictionaries, thesaurus
Andy Short: examples of poems
Chip: Given a poem from the romantic period, the learner will analyze
the imagery in the poem to....
Kimberly C.: Say you needed computers as a part of your lesson, does
that make it a contraint as well since you cannot teach without it?
Kimberly C.: constraint
Chip: Yes, Kimberly.
Kimberly C.: ok
Nancy Vondrak: interesting question, Kimberly
Chip: If the learners can't perform without it, it is likely that you
will need it for the teaching, too.
Kimberly C.: Its a lot of variables!
Chip: Given a car with a flat tire, a jack,a spare tire, and the
necessary tools, the learner will change the tire within 10 minutes.
Tanja: What would be instructional goal for that?
Andy Short: I need to get some of my old Army task manual out. this is
how they are set up
Shehu Umar: Constraints is -ve term. What does it mean here?
Chip: TAnja, in that case, that probably is the goal, translated into an
objective form.
Tanja: So there would be no difference?
Chip: Your first task in doing the objectives will be to take your goal
from the NA and IA and turn it inot an objective.
Karie: So the instructional goal becomes the performance objective when
you add conditions, observable behaviors, and criteria?
Chip: What might be a subobjective for the changing a tire goal?
Andy Short: operating the jack
Chip: The goal becomes what is called the terminal objective.
Karie: Locating the spare tire?
Matt Dockery: Taking out the spare tire
Chip: Each of the steps in the IA then becomes a subordinate objective.
Annette: removing the tire
Andy Short: got it
Keith: properly positioning the jack
Jenn L: that's a lot of sub objectives
Chip: Given a car with a flat tire and a jack, the learner will jack up
the corner of the car with the flat tire (add criteria here).
Nancy Vondrak: i was thinking the same, Jenn L
Andy Short: @64,64 !It's Andy Short
Chip: Yes, it is a lot of objectives. That's part of the process.
Annette: We list all steps in the objective?
Chip: Yep
Karie: I'm wishing my IA was a lot more simple...:)
Jenn L: me too karie
Keith: until the tire is four inches off the ground
Nancy Vondrak: same here
Chip: Ha! That's why I don't tell you all this at the beginning!
Shehu Umar: Thats what must be called detailing in objs.
Denise: I think that the criteria is the hardest part for me
Keith: Ha Ha
Jenn L: thanks chip
Adina: sneaky
Chip: OK, let's look at the criteria.
Chip: What kinds of criteria could there be?
Andy Short: time
Heidi: @64,64 !It's Heidi
Chip: Yes, time or speed is one possibility.
Shehu Umar: the degree of achievement expected?
Jenn V.: levle of independence
Keith: distance
Jim Raber: accuracy
Kimberly C.: a rubric
Keith: 8 out of 10 times
Denise: these are good.. I am writing them down!
Annette: standards?
Keith: 9 out of 10 times
Keith: :)
Chip: Accuracy (or maybe correctness) I understand. Not sure about
distance, levels of independence, and some others.
Andy Short: cut and paste, that is what I am doing
Chip: Can you explain?
Keith: Kick a field goal from 30 yards
Chip: Let's hold off on something like 9/10 for a moment.
Keith: in PE
Chip: OK, Keith, I see... perhaps we could call that degree of
difficulty.
Karie: How do I decide "How correct" a concept map should be?
Chip: Jenn V. what about levels of independence?
Chip: Good question, let's get to that momentarily, too.
Jenn V.: With verbal prompting or hand-over-hand guidance....
Chip: Ah, good, yes, I like that one, Jenn V.
Andy Short: given a prompt the student.....
Keith: in writing
Chip: OK, two things we need to look at from what you said. 1. the
testing issue (8/10) and 2. what to do with complex things like essays
or concept maps.
Chip: First, I'm not a fan of putting things like 8/10 into the
criteria.
Annette: Explain criteria to me?
Andy Short: but this is what we are facing with the testing this spring
Jenn V.: How else do you set defintive levels of performance,
particularly in a short document like an IEP
Kimberly C.: so is completeness and correctness for a power point a
critera?
Keith: I agree that 8/10 isn't the best. It sends the message that 100%
is not expected or even sought after.
Chip: Let's take math problems. If we are teaching, say, subtraction we
might want to say something like learners will solve the problems
correclty eight of ten times or 70% ro something.
Karie: It seem that if I'm on the wrong track with my performance
objective, my sub objectives (or whatever they're called) will also be
wrong. I'll be doing ALL of them wrong!
Jenn V.: with 70% accuracy is more acceptable?
Chip: But our goal is really that they will do it correctly every time.
We just recognize that there are external influences that prevent that.
Jenn V.: got it.
Annette: Like the learner on an IEP
Jennifer J.: can you give an example of a good one
Karie: Is there any way to find out if I'm on the right track before I
do the whole thing?
Chip: I would rather say "solve the problem correctly" and set an
percentage in the assessment step instead o fin the objective.
Shehu Umar: @64,64 !It's Shehu Umar
Kimberly C.: so what is an example of and ideal critera for something
abstract like a concept map or essay?
Chip: Kimberly.... yes completeness and correctness are criteria.
Kimberly C.: ok
Denise: How about saying doing something succesfully. or is it that we
are suppose to be defining what successfully actually is?
Chip: So let's look at things like essays and concept maps. I think
there we need to look at how we will assess these.
Karie: I was planning on using a rubric
Andy Short: Kimberly, for an essay we use a rubric that states the
criteria
Chip: Nowadays what do we usually do when we assess assignments like
that?
Heidi: based on a rubric
Chip: Right, rubrics.
Nancy Vondrak: we use rubrics
Adina: essays I use a rubic
Shehu Umar: We make model ansewers?
Tanja: I do not know what is the rubric.
Chip: Denise, I'm not sure about successfully. It might be more useful
to be more specific with terms like correctly, completely, etc.
Chip: So, with a conept map, what criteria would tell us if they are
good?
Kimberly C.: if its rubric based then that brings us back to 8/10
Jenn L: complete thoguht presented?
Jenn V.: We look for a demonstration of understanding about a concept.
Being able to group like concepts, idenitify realted items or events...
Karie: If terms or concepts are linked correctly
Karie: If there are relationships between terms shown
Jennifer J.: tanja, a rubric is a way to grade essays by giving
different aspects of the essay point values
Chip: Completeness. Accurate grouping of concepts, correct links, things
like that.
Chip: From that we would develop our rubric later.
Tanja: Thanks. So it is a kind of "drop down" list with options : -)
Chip: yes, sorry, Tanja, a rubric details the criteria for grading and
describes what different pont values are.
Jennifer J.: tanja, yes. If everything spelled correctly they get 4 out
of 4 and so on
Keith: Given a letter from a Civil War soldier, the student will respond
in writing with a letter, using friendly letter form, that answers
questions asked and in turn asks relevent questions.
Andy Short: @64,64 !It's Andy Short
Chip: Shehu, I like the idea of model answers for the assessments.
Chip: Let's look at that in a couple of weeks.
Andy Short: bare with me here, my connection keeps dropping
Keith: Would that illustrate complete in a writing assignment?
Annette: Keith, is that all one objective?
Chip: Note that in the objective we would list the criteria that would
be used in the rubric, but not the points for each one or anyting. Those
are specified later.
Keith: a long one
Jenn L: how will this relate to competing study skills before a test?
Points given for completing each skill? Flashcard? highlighting of
notes?
Chip: Keth, that's a pretty good one, although you might also have
citeria for the mechanics (grammer, spelleing, etc.)
Keith: So, include those in a subobjective?
Chip: Not sure, Jenn L. How would you state your terminal objetive?
Annette: But, would Keith put that all in one objective?
Keith: They would naturally fit on a rubric for grading
Jenn L: not sure now?
Chip: The terminal objectibe might be pretty complex, yes,
Chip: The others would likely be simpler.
Jenn L: when studying for a test students will use at least three
differnt study skills?
Keith: Okay. So don't worry about run on sentences.
Chip: What's the goal, Jenn L?
Chip: Not really Keith.
Shehu Umar: Do we need to know what a terminal obj is now?
Andy Short: @64,64 !It's Andy Short
Karie: Yes, I'm a little confused about the diff between a goal, a
terminal objective, and the performance objective
Chip: You should know your goal, From that you write your terminal
objective.
Andy Short: i'm back again and again
Keith: And the performance objective would relate to the performance
context.
Karie: Is there a special way to write or phrase the goal? Is the way we
did it for the NA or the IA okay?
Kimberly C.: so the terminal objective is the 'end result' objective?
Chip: The goal is what you specified in the NA and analyzed in the IA.
Keith: So the performance objective may or may not be the same as the
terminal objective (learning context objective)
Chip: All of the objectives are performance objecives. The one
corresponding to the goal is the terminal ojbecive.
Chip: All the others are subordinate objectives.
Denise: The terminal objective is the Goal with the 3 required pieces?
Chip: The terminal objective is just one of the performance objectives.
Keith: Okay
Chip: Right Denise
Shehu Umar: Just like 6 in 4+2?
Chip: OK, so Jenn L's goal is that students will use some study
strategies when studying.
Heidi: so is the goal the big picture, the termial objective is how we
accomplish that and the performance breaks down how that will be
accomplished?
Annette: And the performance objective might be the learner will use
flashcards
Chip: What is the verb for Jenn L's
Andy Short: student will identify x amount of skills?
Chip: Sounds pretty good, Heidi.
Keith: The terminal objective is the overall goal written as a
performance objective.
Karie: "Use?" "select?" "choose?"
Tanja: Verb is "use strategies"?
Annette: wrong verb and i knew it.
Chip: OK, so "use"may be a good verb, with strategies as the object of
the verb.
Chip: What are the onditions for Jenn L?
Tanja: Yes : -)
Tanja: Given study material?
Keith: when studying?
Andy Short: given a topic the student will identify and use x amout of
strategies
Denise: Given relevant stufy material?
Denise: Oops Study
Kimberly C.: a test so show study skills worked?
Karie: given a selection of study aids?
Keith: the students will perform under the conditions of studying
Keith: We might say when studying multiplication facts
Andy Short: identify the appropriate study material?
Chip: Given an upcoming test, relevant study materials, and ???, the
learner will use at least three study strategies
Jenn L: thx you are helping me a lot!
Chip: I also like the construct When studying for a test and given....
Chip: How about the criteria for Jenn L?
Shehu Umar: choosing appropriate strategies?
Chip: How do we know if they use the strategies effectively?
Karie: would it reflect in their test grade?
Andy Short: identify the appropriate study material for the condition
Shehu Umar: By choosing the appropriate one for the situation?
Chip: Choosing strategies is part of the analysis, but isn't the final
goal.
Tanja: We have to ask them or give assignment that will do that.
Nancy Vondrak: by our observations
Kimberly C.: accuracy/correctness of answers based on material studied?
Keith: will choose strategies that enable the learner to retain
information?
Keith: different strategies will help different learners
Jenn L: final goal is to improve grades
Chip: This is going to be a tricky part of this one, isn't it?
Karie: can you use something like their test grade to determine if they
used the strategies effectively?
Keith: Would it need to be measured right in the study session?
Shehu Umar: It appears.
Chip: ultimately the criteria might be the effectiveness of the
strategies as measured by increased test scores.
Keith: since it is a study strategy goal rather than a test goal?
Chip: More immedaitely we might just observe to see whether they did
them correclty.
Andy Short: i would look at more like that Chip
Andy Short: was the study skill appropriate for the task?
Chip: So we might leave that decision to Jenn L, right?
Nancy Vondrak: i said observatoins before
Nancy Vondrak: i mean observations
Chip: Sorry, Nancy, I sometimes lose track.
Jenn L: I'm writing everything you are saying down...
Keith: I guess an important thing is that it is measurable in an
objective manner.
Nancy Vondrak: you can always print out the log, Jenn L
Jenn L: thanks nancy
Karie: That's a big challenge in education, isn't it? Objectifying even
those things that are fairly subjective.
Andy Short: are others being kicked out or is my connection?
Keith: Its your connectiton
Karie: It's you
Jenn L: just you knock on wood
Keith: It is a big challenge.
Nancy Vondrak: It seems like your connection Andy
Chip: It can be, Karie But the behaviorists were right about one
thing--we can only observe behavior and its consequences.
Shehu Umar: Complain to ur isp.
Jamie: I keep losing connection too Andy
Andy Short: but who would listen?
Keith: That is a helpful thing about those content standards and the OAT
tests - they push us to be able to measure things in an objective way.
Chip: Let's take one other examples. Do I have a volunteer?
Denise: Pick me
Adina: me
Chip: OK, Denise.. what is your goal?
Kimberly C.: power point presentations
Chip: Sorry, Adina.
Adina: it's ok
* Chip * Adeena, right?
Denise: My goal is to teach learners to compose, send and replay to
Yahoo Mail
Adina: ;)
Adina: right
Denise: Reply
Denise: I think I have everything but the criteria
Chip: OK, so we might have to go with the three verbs.
Chip: The conditions are what, Denise?
Denise: I have tried to think of one to cover the three
Andy Short: access to internet
Andy Short: working computer
Karie: a yahoo mail account
Shehu Umar: error free at not more than 2 trials?
Keith: open web browser
Nancy Vondrak: ability to navigate keyboard and/or ouse
Nancy Vondrak: i mean mouse
Chip: Given a computer connected to the Internet running a Web browser
and a Yahoo email account,
Andy Short: Shehu, i think that is criteria
Chip: Nancy, those are slightly different, since they are skills that
will be either in the instruction or prereqs.
Shehu Umar: I lost track. Thanks Andy.
Nancy Vondrak: sorry
Chip: Shehu, yes, that could be part of the criteria. What else?
Denise: My trouble is with the criteria
Chip: Time could be an criterion, too.
Andy Short: locating the correrect link
Shehu Umar: Within a limited size in say Megabite?
Chip: Perhaps here is a place where the term "successfully" might work,
since you will know if they do it wlell, if the emails is read, sense,
etc.
Tanja: Seems that criteria is artificial in this case.
Chip: oops, sent, not sense.
Denise: That is the term that I keep falling towards
Chip: I think I might be able to accept "successfully" here.
Jennifer J.: then what comes after the 'given' statement?
Chip: You might also have a time criterion if you'd like.
Karie: all those things Chip mentioned earlier?
Chip: the learner will read, send, and reply to email successfully with
x minutes.
Chip: within x minutes.
Jennifer J.: thanx, I am becomng less confused!
Karie: I'm still very vague about how to set mine up. Will we be
breaking into smaller groups to share/get feedback?
Chip: Remember to take each one separately.
Nancy Vondrak: i'm a bit vague on this as well, Karie
Denise: each of the three verbs?
Chip: Well, we're kind of out of time. How about we set up a forum where
you can describe your goal and get suggestions?
Keith: sounds good
Karie: That sounds good
Jenn L: ok
Shehu Umar: Ok.
Heidi: great
Nancy Vondrak: ok
rsynk: yes
Kris: ok
Jamie: that would be great!
Jennifer J.: ok, what about those 3 verbs really quick?
Jenn V.: Sounds great
Chip: Each of the subobjectives should be taken individually in each of
your proejcts... that's what I meant.
Kimberly C.: ok
Chip: Denise had the three verbs about email.. that may not apply to
your project.
Denise: And those were our main steps on our Goal analysis?
Chip: You need objectives for your goal statement and for each piece of
your IA.
Karie: by "piece of your IA" do you mean each of the subskills stated in
the IA? How many objectives are we likely to end up with?
Andy Short: do we do them for our subtasks also
Jenn L: a lot it seems
Chip: Yes, Karie that's what I mean. Most of you might have a couple of
dozen. I recommend using copy and paste!
Chip: Yes, Andy
Andy Short: it's ok that some may be the same?
Karie: what exactly do you mean by "copy and Paste"? Is there going to
be a lot of repeating?
Chip: They are likely to be very similar... that's why copy-and-paste
Andy Short: i had the same q
Chip: They shouldn't be identical, but there will be common elements to
the conditions, etc.
Denise: Just some verbs changing and maybe the criteria
Chip: Slight changes in conditions, too.
Jenn L: so each step has it own objective and each sub-task as
well...this is just like our state standards. Benchmarks and standards
and suskills for each.
Jenn L: subskills
Chip: Yep
Jenn L: got it
Keith: What about entry level behaviors?
Andy Short: now I get it!!
Chip: Ah, entry behs.... good question.
Keith: Since we aren't teaching those - no objectives?
Chip: If you are not CERTAIN that they have the
Chip: entry behs, then you will need to assess them.
Chip: So you will need objs for them.
Keith: okay
Keith: Because in a target group - some may need instruction for entry
behaviors.
Chip: If you are certain, then you don't need to assess so no objs.
Andy Short: most like you will pre assess to see ith you need to teach
them
Chip: Right, Keith.
Chip: Right, Andy
Chip: OK, that's it for me this evening.
Keith: Thank you. Have a good night.
Chip: Someone should remind me to post the logs, in case I forget
Andy Short: hey i did lose my connection yet!
Chip: Send an email!
Jamie: thank you
Nancy Vondrak: thanks everyone
rsynk: gn
Tanja: Thanks. Good night everyone.
Jenn L: thanks eeryone for your help
Chip: I'll start some forums in Moodle.
Andy Short: Matt if you got to IM we can fix the wiki
Jenn V.: see ya!
Keith: Bye. I'm going SCUBA diving.
Denise: Good night!
Heidi: thatnks
Annette: Have a nice week.
Chip: Bye all.
Adina: :)
Shehu Umar: We ll love it, bye
Kris: night
Karie: bye
Jennifer J.: bye
No connection - Click Anywhere to enter a Palace
21:12:34 - Status Log Closing
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