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18:03:12 - Status Log Opening
Jennifer J.: @64,64 !It's Jennifer J.
Chip: Hi
Jennifer J.: Hi. I am early, but I have to leave for an hour and I don't want to be signing in in a panic!
Chip: OK
Andy Short: @64,64 !It's Andy Short
Chip: Hi Andy
Jim Raber: @64,64 !It's Jim Raber
Chip: Hi Jim
Andy Short: Hi all, how has the week been. For some reason my students at school are a bit on edge and it's not even a full moon!
Chip: What's up, Andy?
Andy Short: It's only Monday and I am beat. I spent the day teaching equivalent fractions to my 5th graders. What a chore!
Chip: Especially since it's actually Tuesday!
Andy Short: I mean Tuesday. Can you tell.
Chip: Yeah, I get that way sometimes, too.
Chip: I admire people who can do that.
Andy Short: Sometimes it take me to the edge, but I do have some students that bring me back.
Andy Short: What days are you going to be at the tech conference?
Chip: that's good.
Chip: I'm not sure yet. I have an obligation on Tuesday afternoon, unless no one signs up for it.
Chip: That makes it tough to decide when to go and when to come back.
Chip: Are you going for the whole thing
Andy Short: I'm presenting Monday and Wednesday.
Chip: Oh, good. About what?
Andy Short: On Monday I am presenting Using Wikispaces in the Language Arts Classroom and Wednesday I am help with a presentation on Exel.
Chip: Great.
Andy Short: Mary Tipton gave me the Idea about using the wiki, since we had to use it for her class.
Chip: I'm getting to really like Wikis.
Chip: How do you use them?
Andy Short: I just have my gifted students collaborating about Math and Language Arts activites outside of the classroom. My goal is to be able have my whole 5th grade be able to use it for all subject areas.
Andy Short: I'm going to get a bite to eat before we start. Be back in a few.
Chip: OK
Karie: @64,64 !It's Karie
Chip: Hi Karie.
Karie: Hi
Chip: Jen and Andy are off doing other thigs.
Karie: After reading Ch 3 & 4 I think I bit off way more than I can chew
Karie: ...with my NA and goal
Chip: Remind me of your project.
Karie: I want students to be able to complete concept maps on Kidspiration
Chip: That seems OK as a start.
Chip: What do you thnk goes into that task, Karie?
Annette: @64,64 !It's Annette
Karie: It's 6th grade science. Maybe I should do EITHER concept mapping OR Kidspiration but not both?
Chip: Hi Jenn
Annette: Hello Everyone
Chip: Hi Annette.
Jenn V.: Good evening, everyone!
Karie: Well, they have to know the meaning of the terms they'll work with
Annette: I am so glad I found you all this week
Chip: Yes, Annette, glad you're here.
Karie: They have to understand which terms relate to each other or other "big ideas" in science.
Chip: Well, Karie, that's actually adding a third big thing to the two I had in mind. I was thinking of 1. how to concept map and 2. how to use the software.
Karie: I was thinking that those things I mentioned would be subordinate skills?
Chip: One way to think of it would be that concept mapping is the central skill. You can't concept map without a subject matter, however, so they
Chip: have to know something about something in order to do it. But you don't have to teach that here. You could choose something they already know about.
Chip: as your examples and practice...
Karie: Could they start with a concept map they'd already done by hand, and then the project would be about teaching them the Kidspiration program?
Annette: )BOOM
Annette: )DEBUT
Annette: )KISS
Annette: )NO
Chip: Well, jsut the software seems pretty limited, unless you add something like concept mapping or content knowledge.
Chip: Ah, Annette discovered the sounds.
Annette: Can you hear them?
Karie: On the other hand, I think where they lacked skill last time we tried it was in actually creating the concept maps themselves. I really want to focus on that.
Chip: Yes, Annette
Andy Short: yup
Annette: Should I turn it off?
Chip: That would be my choice, Karie.
Karie: So do I even have to include any work on Kidspiration in the project?
Chip: Not necessairly, Annette. Anyway, you can't turn them off on my computer.
Chip: Not unless you thnk that teaching the software will help teach concept mapping.
Karie: Well, it does enable them to make quick revising and editing if they aren't happy with something about their maps.
Chip: I agree.
Karie: It also goes quickly from web form to outline form so learner who prefer a more top-down verbal approach to organizing info can see if they're on track
Chip: True.... so you want to put the two together.
Chip: I'll be back in a couple of minutes....
Karie: I'm taking a break 'til 7:20--see everyone then
Andy Short: Same here
Jenn V.: I don't know about anyone else, but my head is really spinning after trying to digest Chapters 3,4. I hope we get a cahnce to really talk about this tonight.
Heidi: @64,64 !It's Heidi
Heidi: Hello
Annette: Hi Heidi
rsynk: hello
Chip: Hi Heidi.
Chip: Yes, Jenn, that's the plan.
Shehu Umar: @64,64 !It's Shehu Umar
Chip: Hi Shehu, You made it!
Annette: Chip, when will you be approving our topic for the project?
Chip: Hi Kris
Chip: Hi rsynk
Nancy Vondrak: @64,64 !It's Nancy Vondrak
Chip: Hi Nancy
Kris Robenolt: hi everyone
Shehu Umar: by the end of next the week, I hope.
Nancy Vondrak: Hi everyone!
Adina: @64,64 !It's Adina
Kris: @64,64 !It's Kris
Chip: If you email about your project, I try to respond within hours or days.
Chip: Don't depend on the discussion board, however. Email it.
Shehu Umar: Okay.
Chip: If I missed yours, let me know and I get back to you.
Chip: Hi Adina
Chip: Hi Kris
Adina: Hi!
Kris: hello
Annette: I emailed it. Did you get mine?
Tanja: @64,64 !It's Tanja
Chip: Hmmm, when, Annette?
Heidi: Andy, you are doing a student display at etech?
Tanja: Good evening.
Chip: Hi Tanja
Annette: Who all is going to Etech? I will be there next week
Heidi: I will
Nancy Vondrak: I will be there Mon - Wed
Chip: The KSU ITEC program will have a booth. Stop by. Kovalik, Tipton, I, and others will be there.
Keith Wayne: @64,64 !It's Keith Wayne
Chip: HI Keith.
Annette: Cool
Keith Wayne: Hi
Chip: Annette, when did you send your idea?
Nancy Vondrak: It would be great if some of us could meet down there
Annette: I will have to go back and look but it's been over a week ago
Andy Short: I am doing a presentation in one of the rooms.
Chip: Then I apologize. I will look for it and respond by tomorrow morning.. Or you can email me again.
Nancy Vondrak: what's your topic, Andy
Annette: I will definitely look everyone up.
Karie: I also submitted my NA last Saturday but haven't heard anything, Chip, so I guess I need to specifically email you to get feedback?
Andy Short: Using Wikispaces
Nancy Vondrak: interesting! maybe i'll be able to come to it. I've never been to etech so i don't know what to expect
Kris: I submitted my NA on the moodle site, is that right?
Chip: No, I try to do most of the assignments as a group. I'll be looking at NAs very soon.... by the end of the week.
Chip: Yes, put the assignments on Moodle, if possible.
Shehu Umar: I really dont know which room I am in right now, Chip.
Andy Short: It can be a bit of an overload sometime because there is so much there
Andy Short: I have to let the dogs in, be right back
Chip: Shehu... you are in my Palace. We are meeting in the lobby. Later I will send you off to specific rooms for small groups.
Nancy Vondrak: I feel fortunate that my school is sending me for all 3 days, but that's a lot to plan for a sub during the 2nd week of the new semester
Shehu Umar: that sounds fine.
Chip: It's definitely a big conference.
Keith: I'll be there on Tuesday & Wednesday.
Nancy Vondrak: Heidi, you are taking students?
Annette: To be honest, I didn't do my NA because I was waiting for approval on my project. Chip, correct me, but our assignments directed toward our projects?
Chip: We'll start here in about 5 minutes.
Heidi: yea.. My students are Finalist in the Student Video Contest
Nancy Vondrak: G2Get more coffee
Heidi: i will also have a group displaying podcasts
Chip: Yes, Annette the assignments aredone on the projects. Again, I don't know why I missed yours.
Annette: Thank you
Karie: If we submitted on moodle, and it tells us it submitted correctly, then we assume you got it?
Nancy Vondrak: great, Heidi, I will look for you down there
Chip: Yes, Karie. But I may not respond immediately, since I try to do groups all at once. I almost always get back to you within a week (unless I screw up).
Andy Short: For the past 2 years I presented student work and took students. That was a fun time for them
Karie: that's fine--just wondering
Chip: For smaller questions, I try to respond within a day or so.
Keith: Thiis will be my first time to take students.
Chip: Keith, what are the students doing there?
Nancy Vondrak: I won't be taking students
Keith: We are going to be sharing some of the podcast interviews & readers' theater we have been recording.
Heidi: Keith, when are you presenting?
Nancy Vondrak: what grade level Keith?
Keith: The theme is "Around the World - Across the Years"
Karie: If I suddenly disappear my electricity went out. We're starting huge winds/storming here in the Columbus area!
Andy Short: I have been going for the past 6 years. I learn something new each time
Keith: 6th grade - Our display will be on Tuesday.
Heidi: Chip I uploaded the NA file. Is there something we need to do to submit the file
Chip: OK, we'll start in a minute or so.
Karie: Am I the only person NOT going to that conference?!
Jim Raber: @64,64 !It's Jim Raber
Keith: Yes
rsynk: i'm not
Jamie: Im in Columbus too- and it is very windy-I have already lost connection once
Jenn V.: I'm not going either, karie.
Keith: Just kidding?
Tanja: I am not going either.
Chip: It should be OK, Heidi. I'll check tomorrow, if possible.
Shehu Umar: I dont know there is a confab.
Annette: Last year was my first time. I was one of the finalist for Teacher of the Year.
Jamie: Im not going- where is the confrence at?
Kris: me neither
Jenn L: @64,64 !It's Jenn L
Matt Dockery: I am not going either
Kris: sounds interesting though
Andy Short: columbus
Chip: Congrats, Annette.
Jamie: Where at in Columbus?
Andy Short: convention center
Chip: eTech Ohio.... big conference. Lots of teachers there.
Nancy Vondrak: yes congrats, Annette! that's an honor!
Jamie: Really? When is this? I work at nationwide- connected to the convention center
Shehu Umar: I wish I can go there, Chip.
Karie: Is the conference in Columbus?
Chip: Mon, Tues, Wed, next week.
Annette: I was surprised when my school selected me, but it was a great conference and I can't wait to go back. I loved the sessions.
Chip: OK, let's get started.
Shehu Umar: I am up to my neck in work next week.
Chip: Remember we will have a pattern here: 1. course questions, 2, content questions, 3. this week's topic, 4. the assignment.
Chip: So.... questions about how the course works?
Karie: Just to clarify--we submit assignments through the moodle, but won't receive feedback for awhile, so if we have specific questions, email you?
Annette: To clarify - there is no group work.
Chip: That about sums it up. I try for feedback within a week. But anytime you have specific questions email me. General questions cam be asked on Moodle so all can see the answers.
Chip: Right, Annette. Tried it last semester, had problems, need to rethink the group thing.
Karie: Thanks you!
Joe Walder: @64,64 !It's Joe Walder
Kris: and the final revisions are all turned in as one project?
Andy Short: that's a tough one to do
Annette: Palace - Is there a way to get everyone's response without reading all of the green faces before we get started?
Chip: Yes, Kris.... the final grade is based on the complete and revised project at the end. I will try to let you know how you're doing along te way
Chip: Do you have your log window open, Annette?
Kris: ok, thanks
Annette: Open log file
Annette: How do I get there?
Chip: That savesit to disk, Annette. There is Options menu.... Log window.
Chip: You might have to increase the size of the log window so that you can read the whole thing.
Keith: So do we get some points just for turning things in on time? I thought it said something about 10 points for the needs assessment draft.
Annette: I got it. It was what I was wanting. Thanks
Keith: Or is that the final version.
Keith: All points at the end. Feedback just for now, right?
Chip: The needs assessment is worth 10 points. .You have a couple of tries to make sure it is as good as possible.
Shehu Umar: I have no Options menu, Chip
Shehu Umar: Poor me, now I have located it. Sorry.
Chip: You sure, Shehu? At the top above the picture of the room there is File Edit, Options Bookmarks.
Keith: A couple. But you are looking at the whole draft only once? But if we have questions after you look at it and give feedback, then we can still email you?
Karie: is there any way we can see each others' Needs Assessments, if anyone would be willing to share? I'd love to know if I'm on the right track.
Andy Short: I looked at past assignments and used the text for ideas
Shehu Umar: Me too, Karie
Matt Dockery: Andy, I did the same thing
Nancy Vondrak: I did too, Andy
Chip: Keith. I do one full feedback per assignment. The first four then get a grade in 4-6 weeks or so. I also answer specific questions via email.
Jamie: I did the same thing- looked at the examples on the home page
Karie: by "past assignments" do you mean the three examples from the ID home page?
Nancy Vondrak: yes
Chip: Karie, yes I'bve been thinking of that. We could all put our assignments on a Wiki. Each of you would have a space.
Chip: Then we could share them.
Karie: that would be great
Kris: i like that idea
Keith: One of the past examples was four pages long when I copied it into Word, but the assignment said to keep it to one page, so I kept mine to one page.
Chip: Yes, the links to previous projects are meant to provide models.
Jamie: Im not sure if I know what Wiki is?
Karie: I couldn't get it down to one page
Keith: I like the Wiki idea.
Kris: i was a little confused how to format my na
Heidi: Kris, mee too
Chip: Do your best to keep it short, but quality is most important.
Annette: The NA looked like a lesson plan to me with standards and goals.
Andy Short: Kris there are some many ways. use what works for you.
Chip: A Wiki is a website that we can all edit.
Karie: Isn't a wiki basically a web page we all have access to and can add to, change, modify, etc?
Keith: So, who is willing to set up the Wiki?
Andy Short: Yes, that is what i'm presenting next week
Chip: yes, Karie, except that it can be multiple web pages.
Karie: So you're the expert, Andy!
Shehu Umar: I liked the examples I saw on NA
Jamie: So its a link that we would provide to show our assignment - but it has editing capabilities-
Jamie: Is there an example that someone would like to provide me in moodle on how to creat one?
Andy Short: I know enough to be dangerous!
Annette: Don't we have access to Kent's ftp page for a website?
Joe Walder: i think there is a web site called wiki spaces
Chip: The NA is supposed to establish that this project is important. It does not specify how to teach.
Joe Walder: it's free to use
Jenn V.: that's more than i know,Andy
Andy Short: joe that is what i use
Keith: PBwiki is free isn't it?
rsynk: pb wiki is free and easy
Chip: I'll put the link to a Wiki up from Moodle in a day or two.
Karie: In my last class (Foundations of Library...Sciences) we used PBWiki, which is free
Jamie: In another I have a web space- but It does not have editing controls
Shehu Umar: NA appears to be at the heart of ID
Jamie: Thank you Chip!
Chip: I don't really want you each to have your own in different places, it'll be too hard for people to find them.
Nancy Vondrak: true
Keith: Thanks
Jamie: We have to provide the link and post the link to our page in the other class I am in
Karie: Please give basic step-by-step directions for accessing and using it for the computer illiterates like me!
Chip: I will, Karie. It will be easy.... really.
Annette: Andy, when are you presenting Wiki at etech?
Jamie: Im with you Kari :)
Andy Short: wikispaces is as easy as a word processor
Andy Short: Annette, Monday
Chip: OK, so any questions about needs?
Andy Short: I need a few dollars:)
Joe Walder: nice
Chip: Uh huh....
Nancy Vondrak: lol
Jamie: yeah me too
Chip: But not from me!!!
Karie: I have a question--do we really have to create all those little boxes and arrows for our own Instructional Analysis?! I'm not sure I'd know how!
Shehu Umar: I need the grade
Chip: Karie, that's what we will talk about this evening. And I'll discuss the assignment at the end. So hold onto that question and ask it again if I don't answer it.
Karie: I always get ahead of myself...
Chip: Let's start looking at the IA, then.
Chip: I'll make some general points first.
Chip: Chs 3 and 4 seem complex, but there is a key point here. What we are trying to do is to take that goal that you made at the end of the NA and
Chip: specify how someone does it and does it well.
Chip: That way we can make sure that we are teaching everything that people need in order to achieve the goal.
Chip: Example:
Chip: Suppose you are teaching long division and the kids don't know how to multiply well.... the division is not going to go well.
Chip: Or if you are teaching how to use Excel and they don't understand the concept of a spreadsheet.
Chip: The idea is if we analyze the goal well, we can find all of those things.
Chip: and make sure we teach them.
Chip: Now, the fact is that this is the single step in the entire ID process that gives people the biggest problems.
Chip: At the same time, I believe that the best way to learn hwo to do it is to try it. That's one reason that why you do drafts of these with feedback.
Nancy Vondrak: ques: - so in ex. 1 the teacher would go back and reteach mult?
Chip: So here's what I want to do this evening. We'll divide into groups and go try a simple one. Then we'll take questions about the process.
Chip: Yes, Nancy.... but ifthe analysis had been done first, you might have avoided having to go back.
Nancy Vondrak: I C
Tanja: How?
Chip: Let's see how it might work on a simple task, and then see how it might work on your projects.
Jenn L: Does the IA have to be in the form of a web though? Can't we just put the steps in order like the steps to performing a science experiment and include all the skills?
Tanja: Would multiplication be a step in long division?
Chip: Jenn, no it doesn't have to be a diagram like that. We'll discuss format when we look at the assignment.
Chip: Yes, Tanja, it would be.
Chip: Here's the plan. I'll give you the assignment. Then I'll announce the groups and a room.
Matt Dockery: How much time will we have to be in the room?
Chip: As soon as you know your room use Options menu.... Goto Room to go there. The groups will report back here when I call.
Andy Short: He'll call us back in
Chip: Oh, about 20 minutes should do it.
Matt Dockery: ok
Chip: I'll visit the groups and see how it is going.
Chip: OK, here's the situation. You are the parent of a teenager, who has been complaining about how you do her/his laundry.
Chip: You decide that it is time for this kid to do her/his OWN laundry,
Chip: Being a good instructional designer, you decide to analyze the task before teaching it.
Chip: So that's what the groups are going to do: analyze the task of doing laundry.
Nancy Vondrak: i've got loads of experience in this dept. (lol)
Kris: i'm going to have to ask my wife!
Chip: NOpe... it's you!
Keith: I have heard about doing laundry before.
Kris: heh ok
Chip: OK, so Jenn V, Annette and Kris R... you can go to the Conference Room.
Chip: Nancy V, Keith and Lauren, how about going to the Fourntains.
Chip: Remember. Options menu... goto Room....
Chip: Tanja, Jenn L, Kimberly C.... Bridge
Chip: rsynk, Joe, Jennifer J... how about the Cabin.
Chip: Karei, Shehu, Andy... you can use the Zoo
Chip: Kris, Jamie, Denise.... how about Melissa's ice world.
Chip: The rest of you, go to Hoover.
Karie: Is that Jenny's zoo? I was the only one there!
Jenn V.: yes.
Kris Robenolt: sounds good
Kris Robenolt: choosing a temp would be next?
Jenn V.: would the next logical step then be to select temperature
Kris Robenolt: and then the type of cycle: normal, delicate etc
Jenn V.: again a subskill would be necessary to teach about temperature selection.....
Kris Robenolt: would a subskill be needed to teach how to turn the machine on as well?
Nancy Vondrak: yes
Keith: :)
Lauren Davidson: ok, so we've seperated the clothes by color
Keith: and the water is runninig.
Lauren Davidson: determined the size of the load
Lauren Davidson: oh, before we turn on the water...
Keith: We forgot to talk about water temp!
Nancy Vondrak: if the water is running we determined the temp
Lauren Davidson: keith, that's where i was going
Lauren Davidson: you type too fast! lol
Keith: Yes, but we need to include a step to determine it
Nancy Vondrak: we all thought of it at the same time
Keith: Great minds!!
Lauren Davidson: *great minds think alike*
Tanja: After program is done we need to continue with steps...
Jenn L: see this is where I get confused. I need to see all steps and sub steps together...the complete picture
Tanja: Take the laundry out and put it into dryer?
Jenn L: hi chip
Tanja: Sub-steps are usually ones that you perform only once - for example you explain programs only once
Chip: Remember, JennL. you are the one who needs to create that big picture.
Chip: Hi Jenn
Jenn L: okay that helps thanks tanja
Received file hoover.jpg
* Chip * Matt, I haven't gotten to your NA. Sorry. meetings all day. I'll do it first.
Matt Dockery: or maybe a dark dress shirt, that would probably not get washed with the dark jeans
Matt Dockery: Ok, no problem
Matt Dockery: I went ahead and worked on my Instructional Analysis....
Chip: Goof Matt.
Chip: OK, so how's the laundry going?
Matt Dockery: Good, Psychomotor skills went real well
Matt Dockery: We came up with attitude and verbal information
Matt Dockery: we were just starting intellectual skills
Chip: OK.
Chip: Keep going.
Received file house.jpg
Kris: so a side not should cover it?
Jamie: but most have basic load size and water temp
Kris: note*
Denise: yes, they do!\
Kris: hi chip
Chip: Hi
Denise: Hello!
Jamie: that should about cover step 4-
Jamie: hi chip~
Kris: is step five then turning on the machiene?
Jamie: that would be a good next step
Denise: Not on.. but, starting it..
Andy Short: there are many steps that the learner must already know. ie the divion example. if the learner is not proficent in mult divisions is tough
Karie: Hi Chip
Chip: Hi
Shehu Umar: Hi, welcome.
Andy Short: the laundry is just about done
Chip: How's the laundry going?
Chip: OK, good.
Shehu Umar: Okay
Chip: Can you do mine next?
Shehu Umar: yes
Karie: I'll have one of my three boys do it...
Andy Short: we have to dry it first
Chip: Ha!
Andy Short: air or machine?
rsynk: are we supposed to look at the subordinate skills and entry behaviors too?
Jennifer J.: Oh! Good point. They need to do laundry. The goal is to get them to do laundry one particular way-ignore variables-especially since they teens
Jennifer J.: Subordinate skills-example?
Chip: yes, rsynk
rsynk: and if they are not familiar with it at all, which again would be addressed in a needs assessment
Jennifer J.: like color coding
rsynk: yep
Jennifer J.: yes, we have to know where they are at.
*** You now have wizard privileges.
*** OK, we don't want to beat this to death, so let's gather again in the Lobby.
Keith: Our whites shrunk. We fogot to turn off the dryer.
Keith: Or overcooked
Karie: We didn't even finish drying. We had just cleaned out the lint trap
Andy Short: why is everything pink?????
Jennifer J.: we forgot about the lint trap!
Nancy Vondrak: so did we
Joe Walder: great
Keith: you have to separate the whites & reds Andy
Joe Walder: did you burn down the house there Jenn?
Nancy Vondrak: I hope a fine doesn't start
Chip: OK, so how did the different groups approach this?
Chip: And what are some of the steps you came up with?
Jennifer J.: we started at the beginning with sorting
Andy Short: I got a quick lesson in colors while in the army, every thing came out green the first time
Jamie: It is amazing how many steps there are!
Keith: We started out by talking about at what point we should start with
Shehu Umar: At the zoo, we almost brainstormed
Kimberly C.: we broke it down into a system of steps
Jamie: Sorting whites, darks, towles
Matt Dockery: green....hahaha good one
Keith: We ended up deciding that we could assume that the clothes were already in the hamper
Nancy Vondrak: we also decide what kind of skills where needed (pshyomotor)
Tanja: We gathered laundy first
Keith: Then we ended up just sorting whites & colors since this was a beginner we are dealing with.
Karie: I had the advantage of having already done this for my three boys (there's actually a list taped on the washer and on the dryer). You wouldn't believe how specific I had to get!
Andy Short: Nancy, instructional also?
Matt Dockery: seperated into whites, colors and darks
Chip: OK, there are some good points here. With any task you have to decide where you are going to start and what to assume has already been done.
Shehu Umar: I got a feeling just how others are having to cope with it at home
Chip: Karie.... see it's a realistic task!
Andy Short: sometime we assume too much
Chip: OK, one difficulty you may run into is the sheer number of little tasks.
Shehu Umar: Absolutely
Nancy Vondrak: true
Keith: We also talked about how some steps would be a choice, like whether to use fabric sheets in the dryere or not.
Andy Short: if then statements
Chip: A good way to deal with that is by doing it hierarchically. What are the 3-7 BIG things you have to do in laundry?
Karie: Yeah--like one of my boys got on my case for not writing down "Close the door."
Chip: Yes, Keith, decisions are important.
Adina: I think sorting is a big thing
Jamie: gather clothes, measure laundry detergent, choose settings
Jennifer J.: 3-7 big steps and then all else is sub-steps?
Keith: Sort clothes, run water, add detergent, add clothes, close lid
rsynk: sort, adjust settings, add soap etc, turn on, place in dryer, settings, sheet
Chip: There are probably 3-4 "phases" in doing the laundry.
Matt Dockery: what about bleach?
Andy Short: we have many subtasks to take into account
Keith: That would be five, just for the washing.
Chip: Right Jennifer J.
Nancy Vondrak: end with folding and putting away
Jamie: bleach could be an option- it depens on what you are washing if you use bleach
Keith: close lid would be a small step not a big one
Keith: so four
Matt Dockery: We put folding or putting on a hanger as an "attitude"
Chip: I would say that they are somthing like: Pre-washing, Washing, Drying, Finishing..... your results might vary.
Andy Short: all a matter of preference
Keith: So the "big picture"
Shehu Umar: That was a succinct way to put it, Chip
Keith: then begin breaking things down in a heirarchy
Jenn L: so the big steps are very broad
Kris: that might of helped us, we got very specific
Chip: Each of the four phases is indepedent, so you can break "Washing" down into its parts, without worrying about the other phases.
Karie: and everything else is a subordinate skill?
Karie: Yeah, we really got bogged down in the details
Andy Short: i think you ar right karie
Nancy Vondrak: I think we did too
Chip: There are a couple of ways you could do this.... think o fit this way from the start, or take all of those little steps and try to organize them.
Jenn V.: its easy to get lost in the details
Keith: We need to get "bogged down" after establishing the big picture.
Shehu Umar: Organizing may come up later?
Chip: If you're not too sure, you can put each step on an index card and then move them around until the categories makes sense.
Kimberly C. 2: @64,64 !It's Kimberly C. 2
Andy Short: I was reading i the text that if you have more than 15 steps, step can and take a look at what is or is not needed
Karie: And if they fit together into broad categories, that's a major step?
Chip: You can also do several layers of hierarchy.
Chip: Yes, Andy, or see whether you can organize it better.
Chip: Yes, Karie.
Jennifer J.: explain the hierarchy, please
Jenn V.: yes,please
Matt Dockery: Now those 4 broad steps that you mentioned, would those all be considered psychomotor?
Chip: Laundry is the big task.
Chip: Under it would be the four major steps that I mentioned.
Chip: Then you would take each of those and divide it further. For example, washing would include loading the washer, setting temp, adding detergent, etc.
Jennifer J.: like a family tree diagram?
Andy Short: i think so jen
Chip: You would see whether it made sense to group them into sets, too.
Kris Robenolt: and each of those could be broken down further?
Chip: Jenifer... yes, or and organizational chart or even an outline.
Jennifer J.: ok, I see. thanks
Jenn V.: so, the further you go along, the more detailed and specific you become
Andy Short: a flow chart would make sence
Chip: Keep breaking them down until you KNOW that your learners can already do the substeps.
Chip: Yes, we'll get to different ways of representing these in a moment.
Karie: For those of us who start out with the little details first, we could put those on index cards and move them around to group them?
Chip: But here's a general principle: you are trying to communicate how someone who is good at the task would do it.
Jamie: Do you suggest Microsoft Word to make the flow charts? the have some charts in there that seemed to work
Andy Short: I think back to my army training and every task was broken down into the subtasks
Chip: You are not trying to show how you will teach it.
Chip: Yes, Karie, I have done that.
Karie: So focus on what the learner would DO, not what the teacher would teach.
Chip: Possibly, Jamie, depending on your familiiaritywith different programs.
Joe Walder: so will this be like a text only tutorial?
Andy Short: and from there each subtask was divided even futher
Chip: Yes, Andy, the ID process really started in the military.
Jamie: ok- thank you
Chip: Right, Karie.
Andy Short: I guess that is why this becoming a lot clearer now
Nancy Vondrak: is it what the teacher would do to complete the task that he would have the learner learn?
Chip: Joe, don't think about how to teach it yet. All we're doing here is understanding how to do what we specifiied in the NA.
Joe Walder: ok
Joe Walder: i think i get it now
Jenn V.: we foucs more on what someone who is able todo the task would do it?
Chip: Yes, Nancy... this analysis defines the goal of the instruction. Later we'll figure out how to get there.
Chip: Yes, Jenn V.
Jenn V.: Got it.
Shehu Umar: I think we ll link it to tching somehow.
Chip: Let's look at one more example and then discuss the assignment.
Chip: Yes, we will, Shehu, but not just yet.
Andy Short: i did just today teaching equivalent fractions
Chip: CAn I have a volunteer?
Karie: sure
Shehu Umar: Yes
Chip: OK, Karie, describe the overall goal of your project
Karie: students will create concept maps on Kidspiration
Chip: OK, as Karie and I were discussing before class, there are at least two big parts to this, right? Creating a concept map and using the software..
Chip: Let's take the hard one:: creatig a CM. How does one do that, Karie?
Karie: You have terms, ideas, etc that come from a unit of instruction. You need to be able to link those terms & ideas to each other in logical ways. What ideas relate? How? It's basically a web diagram
Karie: that explains how ideas & facts & concepts are related to each other
Chip: OK, so some of the substeps are to identify key terms, put them on paper and show relationships with linke.
Karie: Yes. And the link needs to be labeled so they read like a sentence
Chip: (This isn't meant to be exhaustive, but these are the basic processes.)
Chip: OK, so when creating links you have to connect two concepts and then label the link. To label the link, you need to think of the relationship and make a sentence.
Karie: Yes!
Chip: So, do you see the process that needs to be done here?
Karie: Umm...help me out?!
Chip: For many of you the primary sklls will be cognitive or intellectual skills.
Chip: That was a general question to the group, not just to Karie....
Karie: It's definitely an intellectual/cognitive process!
Andy Short: Yes mine is a cognative skill
Kris Robenolt: would you first have to make a connection?
Chip: You need to figure out what needs to be done and then ask something like "To do X, what substeps do I need to do?"
Tanja: I see it as define terms, deline links, and put them together?
Heidi: that make sense
Karie: Well, they must know the definitions of terms and know the important facts
Chip: Yes, the CM process involves some psychomotor skills, but they are trivial compared to the thinking skills.
Andy Short: think of it as giving directions?
Shehu Umar: In logical order also?
Kris: making basic building blocks along the way to build the knowledge
Chip: andy, good point. When you have finished it, you might ask whether someone could follow this process and successfully comlete the task.
Keith: That is the idea behind the test group we should try to use in April, right?
Chip: yes, after you have brainstormed the steps, you do need to organize and order them.
Jenn V.: Is it always necessary to analyze the subskills for each step in the process, at least initially?
Adina: like a "how-to"?
Kris Robenolt: if the problem is making connections, shouldn't there be a skill that's taught?
Karie: Can you insert questions to ask the learner, like, "Are the two ideas related?" and have them choose Yes or No?
Chip: Keith, well, you might not use this analysis directly with the students.... you still have to decide how to really teach it.
Keith: right
Nancy Vondrak: so it is really for the Inst. Designer's use?
Kris Robenolt: Karie, how would they know if they are really related?
Chip: JennV... for now, we will assum that it is necessary. It is possible to demonstate that leaving things out of the instruction makes it less effecive.
Kris Robenolt: what criteria are they going to use?
Karie: If they could use the two ideas (terms, words, whatever) in a sentence together, then they're probably related.
Chip: Nancy, yes, at this point the analysis is for the IDer.
Jenn V.: ok, thanks.
Chip: Yes, Kris, R. you are identifying some important points in the analysis of concept mapping.
Tanja: Creating maps should come after something is covered in some way.
Karie: Definitely. A starting point is knowledge of terms and facts.
Chip: OK, so let's look at the assignment, right?
Andy Short: k
Jamie: ok
Chip: Obviously, the assignment will be to take your project and analyze it.
Chip: You should start from the goal in your NA.
Chip: And do the process that we started here.
Chip: Don't worry about getting it perfect this first tiem. That's what the feedback is for.
Kris Robenolt: should we assume no prior knowledge?
Chip: The big question many of you had was how to represent it.
Chip: Not quite, Kris R. your analysis should be detailed enough so that you can point to parts o fit and say "These are prerequsites"
Kris Robenolt: okay
Chip: As for representing it, a lot depends on what the topic is.
Chip: I don't believe that there is any one "right" way to do it : outline, diagram, etc.
Chip: A flowchart is good for aprocess that is not heirarchical and includes some but not too many decision points.
Chip: An organizatonal chart is for purely hierarchical things, but may also be shown as an outline.
Chip: The textbook suggests a combination of hierarchy and flowchart for many things.
Andy Short: I saw many good ideas in the text
Chip: For example, in the laundry example, you mgiht have the four phases on one page and then the breakdown of each on on a separate page.
Chip: AS far as I am concerned, the key is that you communicate how someone does this.
Chip: That is important. HOW you do it is up to you, as long as it communicates.
Chip: Does that help?
Keith: yep
Nancy Vondrak: yes
Andy Short: the whole time i thought i was doing it wrong, yet i did it right
Jamie: yes
Kris: yep
Chip: If it is complete, accurate, communicates, etc. then it is right.
Jenn V.: ok
Keith: We don't need to be nervous about doing it exactly like the text, just so we communicate
Jenn L: do we have to use all the labels such as verbal,attitude etc?
Chip: If I get really confused, then it might not be communicating, and I'll tell you so and make suggestions.
Chip: Yes, Keith.
Jennifer J.: format doesn't matter as much as long as it can be followed?
Karie: It helps format-wise, but I'm still going to really have to mull over exactly WHAT a "good" learner is doing when making a "good" concept map!
Chip: JennL, I do want you to indicate what kinds of learning are in there.
Andy Short: i think the mud is clearing
Chip: Right JennJ.
Karie: Verbal is for basic fact knowledge?
Chip: Yes, Karie, that's the hard task. And I'm trying to set things up so that you can concentrate on it.
Chip: Right Karei.
Chip: OK?
Chip: So go and analyze already!
Karie: I guess OK!
Jenn L: sort of
Keith: okay!
Jamie: ok
Kris: got it
Denise: ok
Joe Walder: this is going to take some time
Jenn V.: ok
Nancy Vondrak: k
Joe Walder: but i think i get it
Heidi: ok
Shehu Umar: Yes
Chip: Yes, it is a bit time-consuming.
Karie: It's due to be submitted before the start of next class?
Annette: OK
Keith: Go Patriots!
Jenn L: good man keith
Chip: Yes, that's the goal, Karie.
Andy Short: see you all at the tech conference
rsynk: cu
Keith: See you there!
Chip: Yes, I hope to see some ofyou there, too.
Karie: Bye
Denise: bye
Kris: bye
Keith: bye bye
Chip: Bye
Heidi: bye
Annette: Will we be on line next week since so many are going to etech
Nancy Vondrak: c u at etech
Keith: see you
Jamie: bye
Shehu Umar: Okay
Chip: Yes, I will be here for the next step.
Kris Robenolt: see ya next week
Annette: I will need to find internet connection at etech
Tanja: good night. Thanks.
Heidi: where you staying
Nancy Vondrak: my hotel has it
Heidi: my hotel has it
Annette: They Hyatt
Shehu Umar: May I come to borrow your ID book, ah... Chip? Pls? B4 I could get mine?
Heidi: did you look on the etech website at the chart
Heidi: it lists which hotels have internet
Nancy Vondrak: i'm right by the conv center. i think the hampton???
Heidi: and wich one you have to pay for
Chip: Perhaps, Shehu. When can you come to see me?
Annette: I stayed at the Hampton last year. Nice hotel
Shehu Umar: 2morrow? 10-11
* Kimberly C. * Professor, due to my lateness, and issues this past week, i was wondering if i may turn in my assignment tomorrow? My project idea is for Freshman english students ot create a power point presentatio
Annette: Bye
Nancy Vondrak: i'm not sure if that's where i'll be but will find out tomorrow
* Chip * That's fine.
Heidi: I am at the Crowne Plaza
Nancy Vondrak: sounds nice
* Kimberly C. * thanks so much, Do you think that will work for a project?
Shehu Umar: Perhaps when?
Nancy Vondrak: bye
* Chip * Yes, but this next step is crucial to help decide what that means.
Chip: Bye.
Chip: Uh, I've got a little time on Thursday.
Shehu Umar: okay, thur is okay
Chip: OK, email me now, and I'll reply with a specific time tomorrow morning.
Shehu Umar: Okay, bye.
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